the 76/reaper or genji/widow examples are the only ones that actually make sense. blaming dps in the other examples for not swapping just shows you have a shallow understanding of how those heroes actually play into each other
Those otp players arenât semi-gods. They got good at their hero because they practice a lot of them. Specialisation beats counterswaps in the long run. Some games you get shutdown hard because you play into people who play your counter and are good at it. But just because enemy doesnât have hitscan doesnât automatically mean you will win on Pharah even if you are garbage at it.
I play many heroes but I donât know why people dogpile otps and mains so much. I would much rather play with good otps than sh*t âwell-aroundersâ that âstrategiseâ by picking rock against their scissors. You arenât smart, you arenât cute and clever. You will get blasted by good players anyway.
If I wasnât so bored of playing one hero only, I would probably main 2 heroes in each role max. Thatâs all you really need. One main heal and one flex heal on support. One brawl and one dive tank on tank. One hitscan on dps probably enough but some good flanker like Tracer on top off it will make your life much easier. Screw counterpicking slaves.
Tracer isnt that good against ball lol
She is super squishy and does no damage except at extreme close range. If you spend all match chasing ball round the map as a tracer, heâs literally won that battle
Theres a reason why tracers best targets are heroes with no mobility. Zen, ana etc. you dont see tracers chase Lucio for a reason
Is she unplayable against him? no. But if youâre going to play tracer you may just as well play sombra and hack him??? Literally the same type of hero but way more effective at shutting him down
So to be fair, I have honestly found that Reaper is one of the best DPS to use against DVa. If they have DVa, I will counter pick with Reaper and destroy her. Shotguns in general are a powerful weakness of hers. Dance around her while she tries to DM your shots and then when she tries to shoot you, pump her full of lead directly into her massive critbox and you deal enough damage to outheal what damage she can put out.
Why not Just counterpick with mei or symm. Those 2 literally melt her for free. As mei you can wall dva off from her support and freeze her down, sym has tp to escape/engage and can melt dva in seconds through her DM. Those Heroes actually deny dva from using her strength
Why pick a hero like reaper where she can completely shut you down
If a dva lets you kill her as reaper she is just bad at dva. She has all the advantages.
- Matrix to eat your shots. If the dva is good any target you try and focus, including herself, she will complete smother in her matrix while they blow you up
. - matrix to delete your ult. again if she is actually good at dva you literally wont have an ult. either you will hold ult all game waiting for the 1 perfect time where she isnt in position or it will just get eaten. Even if you get kills with it, it was likely in an inopportune moment where you had to play around her. Reminds me of genji players who hold blade all game because they know the enemy zen has trance. So they spend the entire match with basically no ult because they are waiting for the zen to die. They could have swapped off genji to an actual more useful hero in that time
. - if she somehow doesnt have any matrix she has instant mobility on a 4 sec cooldown to completely avoid you.
The ball is literally always in her court. If she ever lets you kill her she is just bad at the hero
Or your DPS can just pick Sojourn and be good against all the tanks. And the DPS.
Also:
Reaper eats D.va for breakfast. She canât kill him while sheâs DMing, but boy can he kill her while sheâs not. With that massive crit headbox, she gets toasted.
And if Soldierâs getting wrecked by a D.va, itâs a skill issue, since he has more than enough ability to reposition and play flanks, and if D.va chases him off on her own, sheâs not doing much as a tank, but your team still has their tank. Like, D.va isnât a hard counter to either, by any stretch of the imagination.
Or those two can murder your supports, and then Ball blows up because he desperately needs support in order to stay alive. Also, what is your tank doing here?
Or your support line can pick people who have counter dive. Which is, you know⊠everyone in the entire support roster except Zen. If Winston is routinely murdering a Lucio/Kiriko/Moira/Brig⊠thatâs a bit sketch.
Like, yeah, DPS can pick stupid things, but itâs disingenuous to pretend the supports have 0 options when that happens.
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Thats the most bronze complain i ever seen 
You know DM isnt infinite right? Also it only protects in an arch in front of her, you can still shoot her from the sides or the back, also is bugged af, and the best way to understand dva isnt invincible is to play her, lets see how much you survive in the paper mech
Dva is one of the best counters to sojourn lol. She can chase sojourn as she is sliding. Eat her aoe. Eat her railgun and deny her ult from killing your entire team.
No he doesnt lol. She definitely can kill him while she is using matrix lol. She can deal tonnes of damage in the 3 seconds her matrix lasts for. Plenty to kill a reaper
She literally is though 
try getting a visor off vs a good dva. I swear all you lots examples are like vs some gold dva who has 0 awareness. We are talking high level players here
No he doesnt lol. Ball can survive by himself entirely. He has the mobility and health pool to constantly dip in and out of fights and grab packs.
Like who? Brig andâŠâŠ and even brig is a stretch in ow2. She can slow winston down a bit but a winston can easily take out a brig in a couple seconds.
It doesnt have to be infinite to make a difference. Denying my 76 from killing anything and forcing him off high grounds is plenty enough value by itself.
When the hell are you going to be behind a dva to shoot her in the back. Be realistic, you lot are not even trying anymore
I do play her. And if the enemy actually swap to counter me i get completely shut down.
Because Reaper is also a solid pick vs the rest of the team and youâre not just picking to counter the tank specifically? There are 4 other heroes you have to deal with. And if you let a DVa shut you down and control the match, youâre just a bad Reaper. It goes both ways like that, see? And thatâs why you focus her down from her Mech before ulting so she canât DM it.
Literally donât Death Blossom when there is a DVa in mech. Usually puts you in a fantastic position in the middle of their team anyways. You do know that DM only protects her front, right? With a shotgun, you get back behind or to the side and do what shotguns do, melt her. As for when she is using DM, she cannot do damage to him at all. If a DVa tries to use her puny missiles, you enter wraith form and wait for it to end and then poof. Dead DVa mech.
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Whenever she is flying in or out??? I seriously doubt you play dva
If soldier decides to ult in front of dva thats a skill issue, everyone knows you have to melt dva down before ulting, or ult after she has comitted somewhere else you have free range
Then ult after destroying the mech. Thatâs no hero issue.
You cant kill the rest of the team if you dont counter the tank lol
You expecting to just walk past the tank and kill the rest of the team or something? This is verging on delusion
Lol youâre literally agreeing with what I am saying. Just her existence alone means you cant play reaper normally. When you are having to play around other heroes, that means your hero is being countered by that hero. Otherwise you would just be able to do the thing you want to do with no question
And if the reaper uses wraith form he doesnt have wraith form to escape and then poof goes reaper back to spawn.
What rank are you where you can just walk around people and shoot them in the back without any resistance lol. This is some plat levels of contrivances to prove the hero works. The fact you are saying you need to play in this specific way to get the kill shows what im saying is true and that dva just existing denies reaper from playing the game properly. When you are arguing you just need to do these odd things and then it works i think it says everything
Oh so you have to do x before you can do y? Sounds to me like dva counters 76 from what you are saying no?
âEveryone knows you have to melt the mech before you can ult duhhhhâ So admitting that in order for a hero like 76 to actually play the game he has to first demech dva otherwise she will deny him killsâŠ
âDva doesnât counter 76, he just has to complete this check list of things which he has to do to her, and then he can play the gameâ
That is like saying zen doesnt counter genji.
âZen doesnt counter genji, you just gotta kill the zen before you blade so he cant trance itâ
Reaper isnât that bad against Dva. Dva can eat everything but beams anyway.
As a support, you can also switch.
Your DPS play Pharah, go Mercy. In the sky, monkey canât do anything to you. You can also go Brig, Lucio, Kiriko or Moira.
Again, as a support you can switch. Zen and Bap can help destroy the shield. You can do Mercy and damage boost the Ashe so maybe sheâll destroy the shield, etc etc.
You do realize that everything you said of how DVa shuts down Reaper is the same pretty much every single tank interaction? Because his ult is a channeling ult, there are lots of ways to stop it or neutralize it that are not DVa. The point I was trying to make was that a tank doing its job is not always a hard counter and there are definitely reasons to play some heroes vs others, even when one appears to counter you. And a couple of the examples you used are not fully countered just simply difficult to play into. I would absolutely 100% say that in that particular matchup between Reaper and DVa, Reaper comes out on top much more often.
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idk, metal ranks donât have the patience to play poke or strats that require some sort of setup (this probably applies to high ranks as well too). Thereâs always at least one person freaking out over objective or wanting to play rush instead of giving things some time to play out, taking things slow so everyone can think, getting the right timing to clean up some picks, and giving enough time to position the team for a win.
Objective time, point cap amount, and cart push distance are resources that can be used effectively. Itâs like giving the enemy team enough space and time to push the payload almost to first point so you can full hold for 1-2 fights. Instead people prefer choosing to run it down main for 3-5 fights per point until they cap all 3 with time remaining.
Another example is giving the enemy 2 capping ticks so you can all regroup so they donât full cap and you win the round. Instead people choose to rush in without a full team and stall point until everyone is fully staggered and the clock runs out, losing you the round.
Edit: push is a good example if youâre winning and almost in overtime. Like pushing the bot to their spawn so they get spawn advantage and an extra fight instead of leaving the bot near your spawn after last fight so they canât touch it.
Some team comp work better with extra time and less dying involved and even counters - counter picks. Because some heros and comps have the advantage for early fights and not for mid or late game (after CDs are used and such).
I guess its true that everyone is hitting GM this season so its become the new Diamond. I did not realize it was quite this bad but I guess people were not exaggerating at all.
If you are on a Widow map, like Havana, you play Widow. Ball is a good pick as he is a good pick on most maps but if you are on Circuit or Havana or Junkertown 1st and you can Widow, you Widow. That is just what you do and you will win most of the time doing that even into a Ball.
Conversely you pointed out Sombra and Mei and that would certainly counter a Ball but the problem that is about all they are good at and if you are overcommitting that much that can backfire very very quickly. Small caveat being that if it is one of those games where you have Plat DPS and a GM Tank, I hate that these games exist right now, then both DPS to counter the Tank is a good trade because the tank diff is going to decide that game. Most of the time though you do not want to overcommit to multiple hard counters with limited ability to function outside of said counter.
She literally canât. D.va canât fire while sheâs using DM, so sheâs limited to her missiles, which deal a total of 126 damage if you somehow manage to land all of them, and her boosters, which deal 15 damage. Total damage: 151. Reaper has 250 hp. It is fundamentally impossible for her to kill him while using matrix.
Youâve clearly never played a lot of Ball if you think this is true. Heâs got 700 HP. The sheer time itâd take to regen all 700 of that by healthpacks is longer than it takes for a support to die, come back, and die again. Ball dies REALLY easily if he doesnât have support.
I gave examples? Mercy/Kiriko/Moira all have enough mobility to pretty easily run away from Winston. Their mobility is on a lower CD than his. Lucio can get away laughably easy. Bap has enough self-sustain that heâs actually dang hard to dive, between his huge burst of HP on the regen and his immortality field. Ana/Zen are vulnerable, but sleep is an option, admittedly not a great one.
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first i think you meant demi-god but its not about them being gods or anything like that.
obviously most people arnt top 500 players (and will likely never be a top 500 player), if a top 500 wants to invest time into one tricking a hero then theyâll eventually get value out of it because their baseline is at a top 500 level. so they have already done the hard part
but if a gold/plat player tries to one trick a hero theyâll never get value past a certain point because the learning curve is too high. climbing up the ladder when you play most heroes in your role is actually very easy, where as if you only play 1 hero the spike in difficulty is significant.
we are talking the difference of playing 300 hours to hit GM vs playing 300 hours to barely hit diamond.
their is nothing wrong with being an otp if it works, people just dont like it when someone is useless the entire match and refuses to swap.
i remember years ago people would mass report and avoid fuey constantly.
the point im making is that specialization only beats counterswaps if you are already good and are willing to input alot more time and effort. which most arnt, weâve had some guy always making posts about how ppl get mad at him for playing junkerqueen and not swapping, that guy clearly isnt having fun. but heâs stubborn and will make another post about the same thing until eventually he rage quits the game. heâll never climb
you have to understand their is a very big difference between a masters/gm otp and a gold otp.
its hard enough as is for a gold player to learn how to play the game properly, they usually climb based on mechanicâs and hit then diamond and start learning the game. but if you are being bottlenecked by the hero you pick then you now need to master the hero to a degree well beyond the rank they are in. so its like if you want to one trick genji into diamond you need to play genji like a low GM genji player and its borderline impossible for a player too improve that much while sitting in gold.
I think there is a lot of knowledge hidden in being stubborn about your pick. Rather than thinking âwhat should i pick to beat this guyâ you start thinking âhow can i make it work?â
Didnât you quit? Or is this a different Orc?
If youâre intent on continuing playing, you should probably try to focus less on your teammates and more on your play
: )