Looking at Zenyatta

I asked the other day about what we can do to give Zenyatta some love.

While there were multiple responses, most people agreed on one thing: his abilities and damage seem fine, but he survivability is trash. Much worse than Ana’s, even though the two play in similar positions and have similar playstyles.

So, why is his survivability trash?

We’ll contine the comparison to Ana

  • Zen has no Self-Healing (Shield Regen sorta counts, but not to the extent Ana has with Similar Mobility.
    Sure, you could give Zen a buff for this if you wanted to. Make it to where, when you have both Orbs active, you receive a passive self 15HPS on top of your Shield Regen. The 15HPS would always be on, but remember that Shield Regen starts after a couple of seconds not taking damage. So the two would only stack if Zen rapidly and repeatedly (I can’t use the word for it for some moderation reason, but it is what happens when you slap a large mold of Jello) peeks a corner to keep orbs up, which would have him losing damage.

However, I think the main issue with Zen is his HITBOX. The Squishiest Character in the game, with no Armor, normal Health, No Mobility, and No abilities that affect him, has a hitbox the size of a compact vehicle? What?!

Legitimately, the best way to make Zen better is to rework his hitbox. Make it something other than a giant circle, perfect for spread weapons (such as Reaper, Tracer, Sombra, even Genji’s shurikens are easier to hit on a Zen). Reducing his head hitbox size so as to not include his orbs would also help.
A good way to start would be to change the way his model is shaped; while the floating legs-folded sit is awesome lore wise and aesthetic-wise, it makes him massive. Have him fold his legs together tighter and to keep his arms closer to his chest. This would make him more narrow, and therefore less susceptible to spread weapons.

The game has 3 of what I would consider Primarily Defensive Ultimates that get near instant value: Photon Barrier, Sound Barrier, and Transcendence.
Trans can be countered by Anti-Nade, good shield placement, Booping him away from his team, or forcing it out of him.
You can’t say that Trans and Zen’s damage makes up for his survivability being trash. Look at Baptiste. Pretty decent AoE healing, a self heal that works in combat, vertical mobility, a CD that makes it impossible for you to die until its destroyed, AND Hitscan damage to almost rival Soldier:76. His hitbox is larger than normal healers, but it’s nothing compared to Zen’s.

You remember me talking about Ana earlier? She has one of the smallest hitboxes in the game, and (if I remember correctly) the smallest head hitbox in the game. AND she has Sleep. AND she has Nade. AND she has Good Healing. AND she has Nano.

Alright, let’s stop comparing Ana, and look at other Off-Supports.
Brig has Armor, 455 total health (HP+Armor+Armor Reduc+Shield), a Stun, a Boop, Self Healing that works in combat, and an Ult that makes her a Raid Boss.

Lucio has decent damage, good AoE heals with Amp, Speed BOOOOOOOOOST, Boops, a self heal that works in combat, and crazy mobility.

Mercy is a strange mix of Main and Off Healer, so I won’t include her here.

Zenyatta’s Damage, while it can be good, has normal damage mitigation in the way. Shields, DM for Volleys, Zarya Bubbles, using C O V E R. Zen can’t get an angle on you, unless your team has gamesense rivaling that of a potato, because he’ll just get deleted.
He can’t off-angle, like Bap can with high ground, making his damage not as impressive.

Discord Orb is fine to me atm, I have no qualms about the ability. My only suggestion might be to have it last 3-5 seconds after Zenyatta’s death.

In conclusion, Zenyatta ends up being more of a liability to the team than a Supporting member of it. Why be forced to play Protect the President with Zenyatta, when you can play Protect the McCree instead and get more damage? Why keep an Orb on a Diver, when you could just Dive with them on Lucio and help more? Why play him for a Defensive Ult when you could play Lucio, who is harder to pressure out; Baptiste, who has a miniature one on a 30sec CD; or Briggitte, who has the ability to Duel a Genji Blade even without her ult if she’s good enough?
There is no good reason to play Zenyatta over another Support, especially since the shield nerfs came through. Anything he does, or anything you’re trying to counter, another hero could do it or counter them better. In order for him to be viable, they must increase his survivability by reducing his hitbox size, or reworking his kit to be more in line with other Supports with a large hitbox. He has too many weaknesses for what he brings to the table, and that’s rarely going to be competitively viable.

(Please note, I didn’t factor in OWL play into this post. Hero Pools force him or allow him to be played there. I hate Bans in the Ranked Ladder, as it isn’t needed to have diverse games in most ranks. Furthermore, the average player does not have the skill presented by OWL Zen players, making their performance a somewhat unreliable indicator of his health for the majority of the playerbase.)

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I think Zenyatta could survive a lot better, if he didn’t need to jump into the close range barrier moshpit to do heals and discords.

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I never even knew his orbs counted as his head hitbox! I thought the point of a head hitbox is that it’s their head!

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Yep! Go into the Practice Range with the Practice Partner, get in close range, and fire a soldier bullet at his head. Unless they changed it with the Echo patch, it’s a headshot.

You can use Orb of Harmony behind shields though iirc. Transcendance doesn’t work through shields though, which is weird that this is still a thing but whatever.

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His survivability (if we measure that by avg deaths per game) is the best out of the three off healers (7.54 vs. 7.9 Lucio and 7.94 Brig)
He’s barely behind Baps (7.5) in the fight for fourth lowest avg death among the Support role.

Just revert the GOATs Discord nerf. Maybe Jjonak if he’s still doing eh.

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The top of them do but the bottom don’t, I hope they fix this!

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If you apply it to a teammate, then the teammate goes past a barrier, then the orb stays, but I don’t think you can apply it to a teammate that’s behind a barrier that didn’t have it.

Unless I wrong about that.

Lucio and Brig get a lot of value out of aggressive play, possible contributing to their death rate. In a defensive situation, they have many more options at their disposal. Zen’s only defensive option is Trans.

I feel like zen and brigs option are the same tho.

Trans is also one of the best ults in the game.

I like zen I just think he needs discord nerf reverted. Rn he’s balanced for 3/0/3, not 2/2/2.

That’s part of the problem

Not really? Brig’s got 10hps, if she can damage the enemy to proc it without getting herself killed, Rally if she can’t.
Lucio’s got the most options with Wallride, Speed, Boop, Amp and Beat if things get real hairy.

Zen’s kit is naturally more aggressive, he’s built to kill the enemy while providing minor healing and good utility until his ult, which shuts down his damage and utility to shoot his healing through the roof.
He’s designed to be a bit of a glass cannon.

Make Discord real good again so his frailness isn’t as much of a dissuasion and maybe we’ll get some divey comps back.

I mean… not really anymore. Its range isn’t that big, you know how big Sound Barrier’s range is? It’s pretty ridiculous. And Sound Barrier stops a lot of stuff from killing, which is really useful against high burst damage and OHKs. Transcendance is useless against one shots and high burst damage.

Discord wasn’t just nerfed, his regular damage against non-discorded enemies was also buffed slightly. So they would have to revert that as well. And then you’d still have the problem of Zen being way too vulnerable in this state of the game in 2-2-2.

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I’m sorry, but that’s ludicrous. Please show me how to Stun and Boop an enemy, gain Armor, and unlock my 200HP Shield on Zen, then we’ll talk.

Its also fairly easy to work around. Running at it with no thinking, it’s one of the best ults. Having a plan, such as trying to kill the Zen before ulting (viable because hes so squishy) having an Ana ready to anti the Trans, or having Sym split the team in half with a Photon Barrier can all screw Trans over.

you can throw a healing orb through enemy barrier.

you cannot throw a discord orb through enemy barrier.

A good zen can headshot someone when they dive you and has higher dps than some dps heroes. Brig’s boop/bash is better saved for teammates than herself but even reorienting yourself won’t save you from certain heroes or ranged heroes, so in that sense it does balance out. Lucio has self peel + better self healing + mobility so I can see that, but brigs self peel doesn’t out damage those in the dps roster except those that aren’t doing very well or she’s made to counter.

In terms of brawling, I think zen and brig are pretty even towards a lot of dps. Zens low mobility has always been an issue for mid tier players but high tier players could’ve always carried for him.

I think the issue is he’s still balanced for 3/0/3.

Discord orb is just not as strong with so many barriers plus the nerf while brig can maintain numbers advantage through blocking things like deflect/take a breather/ insta kills like mei combos, pin, punch, hook combos, rez, etc.

Zens utility is weaker than the other offhealers rn because so many barriers plus his nerfs but he’s still as capable as ever at out damaging those attacking backline

Okay, so, no offense, but suggesting Zen has any sort of survivability close to what Brig has is flat out ignorant. If Zen’s headshots instaly deleted people, sure, I could see your point. But the don’t. He has to hit multiple of them, and they are projectile, adding a sense of prediction to it.
Any DPS with decent Aim with Farm you, because your hitbox matches spread patterns in OW Exactly.

Why play Zen over anything else is my question? He too exploitable for what he gets done. The only thing hes picked for is breaking barriers alongside a Baptiste. Is that really what we want to leave him as? A barrier breaker that only works so long as there is the maximum possible defense available for him?

Discord orb wasn’t a huge nerf to Zen, and still isn’t. I rarely notice the change compared to before, because theres so much damage anyways.

Just-no. Briggite’s weakness since her release has always been ranged damage; something you get from a melee hero. However, there is a legendary thing, that exists to counter all ranged damage everywhere. . .its called a $%#%ing corner. You can hide from ranged damage until someone either takes care of it, or you win the close-up war. You can’t hide from a Dive without isolating yourself from the fight entirely.
It absolutely does NOT balance out. Lucio is an Amazing character, but what sets Brig apart from him is Shield Bash. That stun is key. That, combined with Armor Packs and Rally? She is still the tankiest support, bar none. Lucio is the most mobile, and Moira is the most slippery (with Mercy in close second)
What does Zen bring to the Table?
Harmony-Why leave it on a squishy dover and risk dying alone, when you can go Lucio, speed them in, heal them, AND add in damage/disruption on the Dive
Discord - Damage is nice, but since Breakable Barriers, generally not required in OW anymore due to the massive sustain nerfs to Tanks.
Damage - Again, his damage is nice, but only if you hit the shots consistently. You cant get off-angles, making any shot you throw able to be mitigated by a Shield, DM, or that legendary thing called cover like we discussed earlier.
Trans - Its overkill for most situations nowadays, and you’re able to get the same effect from a lower-cost source. Also, can be countered or forced out due to it being his ONLY form of survivability.

If they wanted to keep Zen the way he is now, up Trans charge rate by a good bit. That’s a boring change, and won’t last because all it’ll do is make power creep worse.
Rework his hitbox instead. No Mobility, No Self-Heal, No Stun, No Boop, not even an ability for himself only. And THEN he has the huge hitbox, shaped conveniently like a circle to match spread patterns to a T.
His damage doesn’t do enough to warrant picking him over other Supports anymore. When you have Baptiste, you have enough. Zen has overkill stats, but not any way to effectively use them. He’s lost his place on the game, and will keep being a bad hero until they make changes to him. Praying that the Devs wake up for OW2.

Honestly, this and anti-heal are one of the biggest counters to trans from good players. Why would you want to remove counterplay like that?

I’m fairly certain you can apply Harmony to a teammate behind an enemy barrier, but it will instantly be put on the 3 second line of sight check then detatch unless the teammate becomes visible outside the barrier.

My understanding is that Zen Orb, Mercy, Brig Repair Pack, and Nano heal target teammates behind enemy barriers.

I just wish he’d get 30% discord and a small nerf to his primary fire. Might not be enough, but definitely worth testing.