He was hot garbage when Bunker was meta for like 7 months and he needs the passive to maintain viability. Nerf is better than no passive.
GM is where the balance really matters.
I’m not at all forgetting that, but all of those health pools and damage mitigation abilities still make them much tankier than a DPS hero. Yes it’s easier to hit Reinhardt’s barrier than it is to hit a Tracer, but that’s also 1600 damage completely mitigated while heroes can stand behind them. Tankiness is a function that involves more than just health pools.
I never said such a thing - in fact I said the exact opposite. I said tanks are simply intended to be tankier than a dps hero and that they aren’t supposed to be huge sponges.
Aside from Reinhardt while holding his barrier, all tanks move at normal move speed, or have movement abilities that make them faster (Dva, Hammond, Winston).
I am surprised that some people think tank has no problem as it is. I am horrified that Rein is now going to be booped and bounced around like beachball. I am not even sure devs know what is wrong with the game and the balance between roles. It is just frustrating and this is the straw that broke the camels back for me. I have lost hopes for a tank role, and I am not going to wait for 20minutes for Dps role, guess I’ll just stop playing.
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Its mainly because this isn’t supposed to be a mmorpg, or a MOBA game.
This is a high lethal FPS. Thus is why if tanks are to strong, it leads the game away from an FPS, which is what Blizzard aiming for, and the player base Blizzard was targeting as they didn’t have this kind of game.
If it becomes another MOBA, then the FPS player base that Blizzard was targeting in the first place, will simply leave to other FPS games.
This nerf won’t change the meta. But people will still complain cause they legitimately think rein is the reason orisa/sigma is garbage.
If it does change the meta. Winston will probably be next to get gutted by whiners.
I do not understand why people complain about a nerf to a hero that got a freaking huge butt buff by gaining a completely new passive that never existed for like 2-3 years or something like that.
Its going back to its initial release strength.
Translation: seems to be listening to the parts of the community I disagree with, and not the people I agree with.
Right, but also remember that it’s not like Damage Heroes do 1 DPS, here. You can have up to 6 people shooting that 1,600 barrier. And, with that output, the Barrier can disappear within a finger snap.
Not to mention, Rein specifically, is a melee hero that cannot Shield and Damage. So, he has to slowly close the gap and do no damage, while the enemy can shred him at range. I mean, yes, he has Fire strike, but again, then you have no shield to protect yourself or your team (I can imagine the sniper-like Heroes just licking their lips about the scenerio)
But, with everything you listed you made it sound like damage output is no big problem. It’s comes off very “Oh, just put up a shield, you’ll be fine”
Yes, I understand what you’re saying with the health pools and damage mitigation. But, I think people forget that it comes at a cost. Especially for Heroes, like Rein.
I don’t think Tanks should be unkillable. But, these days, they don’t even feel like Tanks. These days a lot of them just feel like walking Ult barriers. And, if you’re Lucky you might have a paper thin barrier to defend yourself for the ridiculous amount of damage coming toward you and your team.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t enjoy respawn simulator, as the Tank. Or, watching my team drop like flies, as Supports. It’s just not fun for me.
Tank and Support feels like garbage right now and Q-ing for DPS is insane, unless you have another activity to occupy your time for 10 to 20 minutes. And, no wonder it’s so high. I know they’re will always be more DPS players, than the other two roles, no matter what we do, but when you treat the Tanks like punching bags and the Supports like spectators, who is going to want to play them? Very few people. Most of them will just go DPS themselves, go to the Arcade instead, or play another game.
“Normal” speed. Yeah, for a Tank, but not everyone else. A lot of the DPS roster is hyper mobile/lethal and will shred you/your team before you even have a change to react.
You bring up heroes like Hammond, Winston, D.Va. all mobile Tanks, sure, but easily wrecked by a lot of the DPS roster (at some point or another). Mei, Reaper, and Hanzo, could eat them for breakfast, if they wanted. And, if Sombra wasnt in such a bad state, she would be there right with them, helping out.
And that’s just talking about direct effects. Then, you have Heroes like DF, that don’t give two sacks of dog food about your Tank line. Your Supports are already dead, before you turn around.
Obviously, I’m amping all this up a bit, to make a point, but you understand what I’m saying.
Now, I’m not saying “let’s nerf all the DPS” or “let’s buff the Tanks to unkillable levels”, but there should be a middle ground somewhere. And, the current state of the game just isn’t it.
As I said, most Tanks and Supports feel horrible. As for DPS, there are a few winners and some losers (either because they’re outclassed or just straight up garbage). But, instead of buff Tanks to viablity and nerfing/reworking problematic DPS, we just leave the trash as trash, the OP as OP, and anyone else in the middle is just buffed or nerfed to fit into the other two categories.
It’s ridiculous.
Well, then it sounds like this game is a complete failure.
If it’s just supposed to be an FPS, why even have Tanks and Supports? You might as well just make a cartoon Call of Duty. And, if it’s supposed to be more MOBA-like, then why do Tanks and Supports feel like garbage?
It seems like this game is balanced to try and please everyone, and ends up pleasing no one.
It doesn’t help that DPS are “at war” with Tank and Support. They want to play shooty shooty bang bang and kill things, the other two want to protect their team and keep them from dying.
Those things don’t work together on a PVP game. It works in PVE, because then you can work together to defeat the AI enemy. But, when you’re playing against real people, nobody wants to lose, And when a team is made up of two polar opposite elements, it just doesn’t work. Someone will always end up frustrated. If things like healing and barriers are too high, then the DPS get frustrated that nothing is dying. But, if those things are too low, then the tanks and supports get frustrated because they’re always/quickly dying and end up just playing respawn simulator.
This game design is fundamentally flawed. As much as I like the Overwatch universe, the actual game just doesn’t work. And I don’t know how they’re ever going to fix it.
Less true for some heroes, unfortunately.
Even without Orisa or Sigma buffed Rein deserved the nerf.It’s impossible to boop him now unless he’s standing right at the edge.
CC is getting toned down anyway
It’s impossible unless his butt is literally hanging off the edge. 
I guess we’ll see if they actually do this change too. In my opinion, 70% shield movement speed is also a big contributing factor. Hopefully, if they do nerf Steadfast, it allows other tanks to be played some more, even if Rein is most played.
tanks and support were added to make it “different”, as Blizzard always strives to do.
However, Battlefield games for example, do have support roles. BUt whats different for Ovewatch, is that it is based on Heros, with hero powers. Thus there will be tankish heros and support heros, self healers, healers etc.
But at game announcement, the clearly said this was to be a high lethal FPS game.
This is probably why they will eventually do 1-3-2, because having two tanks it is hard to balance them in risking to make them too powerful or impactful. It also does not allow many tanks to be main tanks.
It does when ana nano boost him and all your teams peels mean nothing. This is prolly the main reason hes getting a nerf
Mei just got gutted big time, but everyone cares more about Reinhardt.
120 ammo is really harsh nerf.
Yeah, but the way blizzard does it, just doesn’t seem to work. Like I said, it ends up putting the DPS players against the tank and support players. Because their end goals are fundamentally two different things. In the end, everyone ends up unhappy, at one point or another.
Honestly, I do agree with you. It wouldn’t surprise me if Overwatch 2 launched with 132.
Because, if they do it that way, they can keep supports roughly where they are, and they could buff tanks without having to worry about things like double barrier.
Now, 132 isn’t exactly a for sure thing… But, Jeff has talked about how OverWatch 2 allows them to revisit ideas and how since it’s a new game they can come out of the gate with something very new and different, because there isn’t that cemented expectation there, like there is with OverWatch 1.
And, I mean, he’s right. Since it technically is a new title, you can slap whatever you want on there, And it’s technical you okay because it’s something different/a different game. It’s a new launch/rebranding/however you want to say it.
But, whatever they decide, one thing is for certain that there’s no way this version of role Q can launch with the sequel. having the DPS Q times be this long, with the launch of a new game that’s trying to get the typical FPS player, it just won’t work. It will turn them off, instantly.
Yes, but they did buff her secondary fire. Allowing her to do more icicles. And I believe that’s why people are fine with it. Because, you’re reducing her CC potential, while raising her mechanical skill potential.
And, at least these forums, seem to be a very mechanically focused group. So, of course they would think that’s a good change for her. Not to mention, some people just want to see her nerfed, in general.
Personally, I’m a bit on the fence about the change. I do think that reducing her CC potential is a good thing, but I worry it might be too much. And, I can see the potential complaints people could make, if that change goes live. Because, no one’s going to want to get hit across the map, over and over again, by Mei’s secondary (Which is what those changes to that hero encourage).
So, even with the buffs and nerfs that are on the experimental card, I can still see people screaming she’s overpowered, when those hit live. I hope not, but I am prepared for the possibility.
Keep in mind these changes are not necessarily going to live, but Mei isn’t that bad off, and it kinda makes sense to make her use right click more.
I never attempted to imply such a thing. OP claimed that tanks are supposed ot be tankier than other heroes. I said “yes they are tankier, and here are all the ways they are.” All tanks have capability to withstand and mitigate damage which exceeds all DPS and support heroes.
Tanks are not supposed to sit they and be able to suck up damage for 10 seconds straight. Tanks create space. Sometimes the ability for a tank to create space requires more than just your tank to do so. For example, when you play Reinhardt, the extent of his success is more than just his ability to block 1600 damage. It’s that his barrier provides cover for his team, and the team’s resulting oppressing fire multiplies the effectiveness. A lone Reinhardt standing there absorbing damage poses no threat while 6 people shoot at you. But a reinhardt providing guaranteed damage mitigation to a solider, mccree, bastion, etc multiplies the value he gets because all of that outgoing damage forces the enemy team to position themselves differently.
I’ve been playing a lot of tank recently and I’ve had very little trouble with them. They feel like they do their jobs just fine.
I dont really see 1-3-2 ever actually going through. It may be a nice experiment for comp and quick play but it completely breaks every other type of game mode because balancing the heroes such that one of them is sufficient means that any mode that allows 2 of them suddenly becomes super overpowered. Think GOATS on steroids.
And good luck getting rid of QPC or total mayhem with their loyal followers, or enforcing role queue on already niche game modes like CTF where queue times are already fairly high.
It will. They have to do something about queue times if they want Role queue to stay.
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