A person can be both bi and ace.
I wouldnāt mind if any hero got confirmed as ace, but it ultimately changes very little in regards to the rest of their identity. As in, they can still be any orientation besides ace (including aro).
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Well yeah, if you adopt the dual attraction model.
But if heās aroace, I donāt see how he can be anything else? Also, is it me, or is it a bitā¦ unpleasant, when ace people are referred to as only ābiā or āgayā or whatever, when they are only romantically attracted to someone? Erasing half of their identity?
Yeah, Iām straight outta tumblr.
Itās complicated, honestly. It depends on each individual and how they see it and which side of their identity they feel more connected to.
He could definitely be ace/aro. It would definitely break stereotypes and would be positive representation. Thereās no denying that. He could also be any combination of that. I mostly wanted to emphasise that him being ace wouldnāt really do much for shippers because being ace still doesnāt erase the rest of their orientation (Iāve seen even ace/aro people having a preference for a certain gender/genders and still identify as, letās say, bi together with being ace/aro).
Iām still salty about what Riverdale did to Jughead, who canonically showed 0 interest in dating or sleeping with anyone ever, yet in the show they gave him a hot gf.
I donāt know, I think trying to forcefully avoid stereotypical characteristics is not a good thing. Because often, stereotypes exist for a reason, and stereotypical behavior and traits often help us to relate to these characters, and believe that they are gay, or black, or women.
Stereotypical features arenāt bad, but being a straight up stereotype is, no matter what. For instance, take Tracer. She is a bit of a tomboy, has short hair, but she is like disney heroine, and she is bright and fun. There are things there that you could think of as stereotypically lesbian, but then there are aspects that arenāt. I think she is a pretty excellent lesbian character because of it.
Soldier, on the other hand, doesnāt really have stereotypically gay traits, and thatās part of the reason I feel a little bit cold on him, when it comes to relating to him, and while this might seem shocking, believing that he was ever meant to be a gay character.
But I canāt say that other LGBT, specifically gay men couldnāt relate to Soldier, and I canāt say there are gay men who arenāt exactly like Soldier, there definitely are, and they deserved representation as well.
In the end, we just need more all kinds of LGBT characters. But what Iām trying to say is, stereotypical traits arenāt BAD, but being a straight up stereotype, in this day and age, is pretty freaking bad.
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Yeah, thatās exactly what bothers me about the Zarya discourse.
Like, I get it. I see it all the time, people with zero knowledge about the LGBT community will be like āZarya must be a lesbianā and āMoira must be trans.ā
And of course, thereās something about that makes all of us justifiably uncomfortable, but then again, there are members of our community that are exactly like that and they donāt have representation that isnāt a full-blown comic relief stereotypical over-the-top character whose only purpose is to mock them. Someone like Zarya and Moira, while being more on the classical stereotypical side would still be good serious representation that doesnāt exist elsewhere. I see the same with āfeminine flamboyant gay men.ā Itās a stereotype, alright, but this type of a stereotype is never given a serious treatment (if any treatment) in the media. Therefore, having a character like that would, in fact, break a stereotype because they would be presented in a positive light.
One of my friends is a butch lesbian and doesnāt even play Overwatch but when I showed her Zarya, she instantly fell in love. She felt represented and also said āThis absolutely cannot be a straight woman.ā Ofc, that doesnāt have to be true, but these traits do resonate with some people in the community and it would actually break the stereotype of a buff masculine lady lesbian being treated like a joke, because Zarya definitely isnāt a joke character.
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This is very true, but as there are butch lesbians who want Zarya to be a lesbian, there are butch straight women who want her to be straight, and want the representation too. And same with Moira, there are androgynous cis women whoād like her to just be portrayed as a cis woman, who doesnāt care about looking feminine.
In the end what this shows is how media and entertainment hasnāt really evolved much when it comes to making characters other than what is expected, lol.
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And it also shows just how few of these characters exist in general so when we get one, we all have to fight for it, unfortunately.
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I like to think Zarya is straight and wants to be cute while also being buff
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put me down in the camp that thinks the next LGBT hero should be a new hero. i think they did fine with the old roster reveals but from here on out i think the other reveals should be done with new heroes when theyāre revealed. for one it would be a change from the norm in how they did the other two and for two it would immediately dispel all rumors it was just āmade up on the spotā and that āthis character wasnāt always meant to be this wayā stuff.
also, not LGBT related at all but since the rumors of a new hero reveal is just around the corner i hope the next couple of hero reveals are guysā¦with the exception of doomfist itās been all girls (no i dont count hammond). and we need younger guys at that. this whole thing has been about the next generation of overwatch and all the youngbloods save lucio and junkrat at girls. itās not that i dontā like the characters, i do, iām just tired of the same thing over and over again. i love playing as ashe but when she got revealed my literal first reaction was ājesus another female hero?ā
on the zarya thingā¦iād kinda love it if she was straight. bust the stereotype. not gonna lie iād be a happy dude with her carrying me around hugging me like a big siberian bear.
i hope the next couple of hero reveals are guys
Same, we are at 50/50 in terms of gender ratios now. But I donāt know if Blizzard can last much longer without releasing: black female hero, backup sexy female hero to get people interested in OW again, Echo and Junker Queen. At least two of those will be released this year, mark my word. We might get a dude this year butā¦ me thinks itās going to be a gnarly older bad guy or an omnic.
echo is definitely on the horizon and i have been seeing growing support for a black femaleā¦and thatās fineā¦but i just donāt want black female hero, junker queen, echo back to back to back.
Istg if they release another old dude who looks like an old dude or is somehow ridiculously stylisedā¦ If we ignore Junkrat who is just disfigured in all ways (bless people who like him, but as far as conventially looking younger dudes, he aināt it), we only have Lucio as a younger guy. Thatās honestly baffling to me.
We know Echo isnāt hero 30, so I have hope for the new hero to be a younger guy, but I also think they really want to make a black female character, and soon (Apex beat them to it so the conversation about it resurfaced). That might be hero 30.
I can see Echo being 31 (or perhaps more fitting for her to be 32 and launch at Blizzcon, as a sort of a theme (introduced at Blizzcon, launched a year later). I really hope we get a cool dude this year though.
Agreed. Zarya is a interesting conundrum in that she would be positive rep either way. Iād say her being lesbian is more positive overall, since for some reason depicting lesbians as butch is seen as bad, as you said. Butch lesbians deserve depictions as good people, but I think writers have thrown the baby with the bathwater.
I wonāt mock, but if someone tells me that having a character that is a active flirt like McCree is good representation for bisexual men, I will quickly point out that that is illogical at best. Appreciation/relation to a character does not turn that character into good representation.
I agree, but having stereotypes is only really cool to me if you have many good non-stereotypical depictions. Hence why depicting effeminate gay men is not a huge issue to me, these men exist and deserve representation. And you have characters like Shiro, Steve Cortez, Kung Jin and Captain Raymond Holt for representation that goes against stereotypes and are very relatable. For butch lesbians, there are already characters like Sam Traynor, Batwoman, the Question/Renee Montoya and Ellie in the Last of Us that goes against the idea of lesbians only being masculine/butch. Honestly, weāve as a culture have gone too far in that regard.
Sorry for sounding like a broken record, but bi-men donāt have that, at least not to the same degree as with gay men and lesbians in culture. Hence why I would have a problem with stereotypical or evil depictions.
Honestly, I might just be a completely oblivious weirdo, but I simply canāt see where this fandom trope even came from.
He doesnāt really actively flirt. He appreciates working with Ana and compliments her (his old mentor and superior officer) and exchanges banter with a variety of people in different ways (āHa ha youāll fix me up doc,ā āHey Genji I bet youāre not faster than me,ā āI like my alcohol with a bit more bite,ā āI want to avoid telling people what happened to my arm so Iāll compliment Torbjorn to deflect the question,ā āOh Mei, I see your tease,ā āYouāre really good at shooting D.vaā ā¦). Ana says he was always a charmer and thatās about it. That isnāt equivalent to saying heās a flirt. Heās just a charming person, which he is, seeing as he talks to pretty much everybody and stays positive.
Like, am I completely dense? None of his interactions are flirting. Heās just open to conversation with people and he interacts mostly positively (unless itās Moira or snapping back at Reaper). I guess people canāt divorce his voice and accent from flirting, but I honestly canāt find a single interaction thatās 100% flirting and isnāt just fandom interpretation based on preconceived notions about McCree and the single comment from Ana that is being held on the pedestal like gospel, even though it can be interpreted in a million ways.
This idea that McCree is unabashed flirt is just fandom imagination. I can sort of see why people want to imagine him like that, but heās just not canonically mindlessly flirting (especially not with only women as people usually claim; if one interprets his lines as flirty, he flirts with both men and women).
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Most likely taking from the western archetype of the rouge lone gunman going from town to town and dame to dame and the fact that Mercerās voice is suave as heck.
And while that Ana line can be interpreted many ways, in combination with the aforementioned items does give the connotation of McCree being flirty.
Yeah, as I said, I can sort of see why people jumped to that conclusion, but itās simply not supported by canon. Thereās just too many mental gymnastics, the shipping doesnāt help either and definitely not the fact that McCree is, I think, unanimously, the most thirsted for character.
Thereās just too many fan projections and nitpicks around his behaviour to the point where I simply see a huge difference between canon and fanon McCree. Like, thereās quite a big line between someone being a positive good looking dude and someone who just goes in for the flirt with anything that moves and people are far too quick to leap across that line because thatās just something theyād like McCree to be.
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I forgot to add that itās quite telling that people imagine McCree as a huge flirt with no boundaries and also immediately assume heās bi.
Iād like for him to be bi, but I simply canāt see this extreme flirting heās supposed to be doing. Heās just a charming, justice-oriented positive character with a complex history so I think that would be good bi male rep. If we look at it a bit deeper, heās actually quite reserved, but keeps good appearances. Heās open and friendly, but he also has no reservations telling people he dislikes that he dislikes them (and even teases them in his own way).
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There is definitely truth to that, however I would not say it is a stretch. Characterās from other fandoms/media that fit McCreeās archetype have typically been flirts, itās more that OW is a game that has very little in the way of depicting romance between two characters. Closest is Rein and Ana and Genji and Mercy.
However, there is the argument that because the fandom interprets McCree as a flirt, it might not be the best representation then. Because itās not like a slight minority that think heās a bi flirt, itās by far the majority. But you are right, in canon McCree is more just friendly and people have exploded that into flirt. I would argue that it would be harder to write McCree as bisexual and not have it be stereotypical.
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Yeah, it definitely would. As you said, OW isnāt focused on romance so itās hard to really explain nuances here. Thereās also the classic problem of showing a bisexual character being flirty and all that jazz, but then that character settles down with the member of the opposite sex and it feels like a cop-out. So theyād have to dodge at least 15 bullets here by trying to depict him as bi. Iād be glad personally, though I kinda see him more as gay (the whole idea of him flirting with women is so reminiscent to me of one of my gay friends (who also loves McCree) and literally everybody who ever met him thought heās flirting with women because heās straight lmao).
Speaking of, itās also quite telling that people see McCree as only ever flirting with women and completely ignore that his lines with men can also be seen as innuendo-ish (which is why we see people be like āHeās straight or at most biā). And like, when will people understand that out-of-context āflirtingā doesnāt equal sexuality? People can pretend to flirt for a million reasons and others observing them can misinterpret things as flirting very easily (especially if they have a thing for that person).
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