Let's work together and not apart on Mercy


#76

Lucio is not a main healer so I won’t talk about him.
But I think it’s normal that Moira and Ana’s healing are better because they’re tank healers.

So basically, Valk is as strong as 3 ultimates + mobility, seems nice to me.
Less trolling, you compare Valk to other ultimates, not capacities, so I guess we can say that Valk is what it should be: a capacity that allows Mercy to save a teamfight.

Also, it makes me smile but I think a “Swiss army knife” really suits Mercy…

Honestly, I’ve played Mercy during mass rez.
Two things:

  • I didn’t like the ult because I felt… useless. Just dash and press Q… And it’s done, you can walk away. I don’t feel it as rewarding as managing your team with Valk to balance between defense and offense
  • Mercy was less versatile, she did not have her tricks with GA and, just these things makes her so fun

#77

I only started playing Symmetra recently, she is pretty fun :slight_smile: I do agree with you on the qol change to her teleporter’s deployment time. Other than that, I am not sure if I would change anything else tbh.


#78

I’m not opposed to Moira and Ana having more raw healing. They should in fact.
But why can’t Mercy have a 3s 8s CD that gives her +25 HPS?
Or using GA gives her +10 HPS for 1s?
Or make her beam heals more the closer she is to her target?
Or make it so when her heal beam isn’t in use she charges a small burst heal?

Or SOMETHING. Some mechanic to give her more than her base 50 HPs that makes Mercy players ask themselves “Do I need this right now?”

60 AoE healing isn’t saving any teamfight where ults start getting thrown around.

She already is a Swiss army knife. Her base kit brings healing, damage boost, and resurrects to a team, while her mobility means no team will be too fast or too spread out to heal. I cannot build a team that doesn’t like all of that. I can build teams that might like the other healers more, but not one that hates having a Mercy.

She doesn’t need an ultimate that is also a Swiss army knife.

I feel much more useless when I use Valkyrie and my entire team dies anyway.

I am with you on this one. Her GA tech was the best thing to come out of the rework. No question.


#79

I’m not opposed to Moira and Ana having more raw healing. They should in fact.
But why can’t Mercy have a 3s 8s CD that gives her +25 HPS?
Or using GA gives her +10 HPS for 1s?
Or make her beam heals more the closer she is to her target?
Or make it so when her heal beam isn’t in use she charges a small burst heal?
Or SOMETHING. Some mechanic to give her more than her base 50 HPs that makes Mercy players ask themselves “Do I need this right now?”

For me, the reason is:

  • Mercy can heal you continuously with no problem
  • Ana needs to reload
  • Moira has a resource meter

Mercy is the only one who can heal heroes without stopping.
If Mercy had a burst capacity, so we will need to compensate Ana and Moira’s weakness on their M1
Also, Mercy is the only main healer with an auto self healing.
Each healer has their advantages and disadvantages. I think if you had a burst to Mercy, she might be too strong again.

Also, the mechanic where Mercy players ask themselves “Do I need this right now?” is the rez.

60 AoE healing isn’t saving any teamfight where ults start getting thrown around.

Depend which ultimates, I saved my team many times with a Valk mid-fight. Last one was a emp+shatter, I had luck, I used Valk just before the EMP and was not caught in the shatter. I healed and nobody died in my team, then boost and we roll on them.
But if these ult were a nanoblade or a beyblade, we might all be dead by now…

I see Valk as a better Coalescence. More versatile and more usefull, also can’t be cancelled by a stun.

She already is a Swiss army knife. Her base kit brings healing, damage boost, and resurrects to a team, while her mobility means no team will be too fast or too spread out to heal. I cannot build a team that doesn’t like all of that. I can build teams that might like the other healers more, but not one that hates having a Mercy.
She doesn’t need an ultimate that is also a Swiss army knife.

Let’s talk about #ReworkMercy even if I’m against it.
What could be Mercy’s ult if it’s not mass rez or valk?
Honestly, I love being able to help everyone and baby them.

I feel much more useless when I use Valkyrie and my entire team dies anyway.

Not happen that much in my games, but I don’t always play Mercy, only when she can be really usefull.

I am with you on this one. Her GA tech was the best thing to come out of the rework. No question.

Yeah, GA is awesome right now :grin:


#80

So uh… if the point of the thread is to throw ideas around I could post mine, however, I don’t think it’s possible for everyone to agree on a single direction, hence why blizz chooses to follow numbers and statistics as opposed to “I just feel like she’s not fun”

While it’s a noble thing to try and reconcile the Mercy player base into a single focus… I don’t think it’s possible


#81

We already tried making another good rework in Titaniums thread. That idea included fun, balance and her core design. Here is the thread which has been the number one thread at this place for a while.


#82

Funnily enough, I’m not 100% opposed to Valkyrie. I do however think the thing is WAY too long and chain beams are the worst. If it was changed to be a much more concentrated burst of power… I’d probably be happy.

I’ve got a thread that’s got like… 6 different Mercy reworks on it… most of which keep a modified version of Valkyrie. Want a link?


#83

I think we can reconcile both mass rez and valk, here’s my idea

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/rR9OKe


#84

Yeah I want to read it.
Even if I find Mercy really fun and I love her current state, I’m always curious about new stuff about her.
I just hope, if they change her someday, they will not remove her jumps on GA…

I’ve read on an old Mercy’s Rework thread an E capacity that I really liked:

  • Remove Rez from Mercy’s kit
  • When Mercy uses her new E, she protects her ally (AoE) from any CCs during 4 sec and she propulse herself in the air. 10 sec cooldown.

I love the idea of an anti cc capacity


#85

There you go. 4 of the 6 keep Valkyrie in some form.

I’m not opposed to giving Mercy or someone else anti CC, but I really don’t want Mercy to lose Resurrect completely.


#86

The artwork is soooo good!
But for the first idea, she would have Rez and Burst healing as capacities?


#87

well, short answer: yes

Long answer: yes but you’d have to sacrifice your ult for a single rez


#88

Can I give you feedback about your ideas of reworks??


#89

Absolutely! That’s why I posted them to begin with.


#90

Seems interesting.
I would love to have a more complicated kit for Mercy to raised her skill celling


#91

Just revert her ultimate back to mass Rez.


#92

Yeah, thanks!
Here we go:

Rework #1
Mercy heals for 60 HP/s again.
E becomes an ability that adds 30 HP/s to Mercy’s beam for 3s, 8s CD. Cool down starts after the effect ends.
So, heal beam becomes 90 HP/s and boost beam becomes 30% boost AND 30 HP/s.
Q becomes one instant, single target, 5m range Resurrect. It charges a bit faster than Coalescence.
Valkyrie is gone.
Edit: The feedback I’ve gotten on this one is that it is probably a bit overpowered. If one or a few of the following tweaks happened to this rework I’d be 100% ok with it… in approximately this order.
Longer ult charge time. / +25 HP/s on E instead of +30. / E has a 10s CD instead of 8. / E has a duration of 2s instead of 8.

I don’t think it’s overpowered.
I think this one is just… Unbalanced!
The idea of a burst of 90HP/s is interesting, but it’s really strong for 8sec, I think it should have a cooldown of 12 to 15 sec for a duration of 3 to 4 sec.
On the opposite, a single Rez for an ult seems weak, I would say it would be better a multiple rez with LoS required.

Rework #2 This one only changes Mercy’s healing during Valkyrie to be 80 HP/s on the main beam and 50 HP/s on the chains instead of 60 for everyone.

I really like this one.
Honestly, I thought it was weaker on the other beams for a long time and was shock to realise you don’t have to switch to heal the team correctly.

80hp/s on the main beam is great, I would prefer longer chain beams with lower heals the longer the beams get (to 30hp/s min)

Rework #3 Mercy gets 60 HP/s back.
Damage boost reworked to instead be enhancement beam. It has one of 3 effects. 30% Damage Boost. 20% Damage Reduction. Cool downs go down ?% faster.
E cycles enhancement beam through the 3 options.
E becomes Damage Reduction beam that provides 20% damage reduction to the allied target.
Valkyrie becomes shorter (8-10s) and doubles the effect of the current beam.
Flight stays, but every other Valkyrie buff goes away.
Valkyrie also unlocks one cast of Resurrect on Q.

60 HP/s might be broken with all these capacities. Maybe 50 or 55.

It might be complicated to use the Enhancement beam but can be interesting, how do you imagine the switch between the 3 effects? I didn’t understand that point.
Damage reduction is a great idea! But I imagine this capacity on a tank more than a healer.

I like this Valkyrie, 15 sec seems a little long sometimes (the timefight ends and you still have 5 secs to fly around like a butterfly)
I think it’s a good idea to remove the other buffs, Mercy is almost unkillable in Valk (at least in lower ranks)

Rework #4
Mercy’s kit stays the same. The following passive is added though.
Healing Capacitor
While not being used to heal, Mercy’s Caduceus staff stores its healing, up to somewhere between 100 and 150 health.
When the healing beam is reconnected to an allied hero, the Healing Capacitor instantly drains, providing a burst of healing equal to the amount of healing stored.
If Mercy is in Valkyrie when this triggers, all recipients of the chain beams get the same full burst of healing.

Is the passive active when you’re using the dmg boost?
150 might be too much but 100 is interesting.

I imagine the animation and it could be beautiful :slight_smile:

Rework #5
60 HP/s beam again.
E remains resurrect.
Resurrect becomes instant.
Resurrect does NOT reset GA.
Resurrect now inflicts a debuff on Mercy that cuts her maximum health down to 120 for 8 seconds (numbers are not set in stone).
Reasoning: Usually getting a pick means the enemy is weak and it is go time. Resurrect undoes that entire situation. With this downside instead of the slow and cast time, a pick still means the enemy is weaker because Mercy has become significantly easier to kill but she no longer has stand and pray for 1.75s whenever she goes for a resurrect.
Valkyrie shortened to 10s. Maybe 8s.
Valkyrie’s chain beams removed.
Valkyrie’s beam length buff removed.
Valkyrie now doubles the strength of whichever beam is in use. (120 HP/s or 60% boost)

I like the change on Valk, maybe 100HP instead of 120 and 40 instead of 60.
Don’t want to see a DPS ult with 60% boost o_o

For the Rez, I think it would initiate a movement like “rez and hide”, not so fun.

It makes me remember of another idea I’ve seen:

  • make rez instant BUT the player resurrected only have 30% of his HP.

Rework #6
Mercy heals for 60 HP/s again.
Either no E or a very very weak one. You’ll see why in a second.
Q becomes what I’ve nicknamed “Blade Resurrect” because it is sorta mechanically similar to Dragon Blade.
For 6? (maybe less) seconds Mercy’s normal weapons are replaced with melee range, very short cast time Resurrects. Each successful Resurrect resets GA.
This is my attempt to sort of bring back Multi Resurrect without the lack of counter play the old one had… without saddling it with annoying cast times or LoS restrictions (seriously LoS in this game is bad. DVa bomb blocked by a post anyone?).

I don’t know how to feel about this one.
I feel naked if I went back to a Mercy without a E :c
But it makes me laugh cause I imagined Mercy being angry, steeling Genji’s blade and starting to yell in japanese


#93

What I like about Mercy:

  • Guardian Angel is a blast to use
  • Juggling beams is very engaging
  • Peppering in some pisol fire every now and then keeps it spicy

What I don’t like about Mercy:

  • E rez feels horrible to use
  • Valkyrie feels like an E ability, but it’s hogging the ult slot. Mercy doesn’t have any real “hero” moment like literally every other hero does
  • Chain beams are boring and a crutch for people that can’t beam juggle

I want a rework that keeps the things I like, but addresses my complaints.

I’d be okay with Valkyrie as an E ability as long as it doesn’t keep the chain beams. I want something that feels like a real ultimate in Mercy’s ult slot, and let’s be real here: Rez is as much a part of Mercy as Hanzo and his bow, or Reinhardt and his sheild. It doesn’t have to be the same multirez she had last time, but some form of rez is the only possibility for Mercy’s ult.


#94

I’d rather not risk another year of a moth meta. That’s reason enough for me not to have her reworked again. They were awfully slow with the much needed balance patches. It can’t be denied that she’s in the most balanced state she’s ever been in. Though, fun is subjective. So from that perspective, it’s kind of hard to dismiss people’s desire for a rework.


#95

This E would give an additional 90 HP (or 75 if reduced to +25 HPs) over 3 seconds. If you compare that to other E abilities with longer cool downs, they’re all significantly more powerful. Seriously… Bio Nade has a 12 second CD. This is no Bio Nade. At +30 HPs for 3s you may be able to talk me up to 10 seconds of CD.

For the ult, that’s purposeful. This ultimate is supposed to be the defensive equivalent of Pulse Bomb so we can make Resurrect fun and impactful but without all the baggage that Mass Resurrect has and without the brokenness of an instant Resurrect on E.

You missed a bit of that one. I changed that one later to just be 60 HPS beam on left click, 30% damage buff beam on right click, 20% Damage Reduction beam on E. :stuck_out_tongue:

I… don’t quite understand the question? Like if you damage boost, or pistol, or just do nothing for 2 seconds your next bit of healing starts with a 100 HP burst.

I think it’d be fine, but I’m not going to number quibble too much on this one.

How mad will your Reinhardt be when you bring him back with 150 HP in the middle of the enemy team and don’t have the heals to keep him alive? Probably very.

It is my firmly held opinion that abilities that you cast on allies should be designed in such a way that at most it makes your ally think “This was a bad time for that.” and should hopefully never make them think “Please don’t use that on me.”

For that reason, any downside to Resurrect should be on Mercy and not whoever she brought back.

That’s understandable. Also that mental picture is absolutely hilarious.