Let's Revisit the Absurdity of "Hide and Rez"


#489

Mercy threads just devolve into discussing the intricacies of what is truly spam or not

h e h


#490

I didn’t know there were only 2 posts about mercy thread since the past 1.5 years after the changes

Sorry for my exaggerated perception of what thread spam is.


#491

The manner in which you look at it matters otherwise all the soldier 76 threads would have been locked. They weren’t. Moved to the story discussion, but not locked.
This thread was opened again because it’s not that mass rez is being looked at at all that matters, but how you look at it. Disagree or not with the premise. But it’s still not the same as :
Saying valk is bad
Looking at other hide and ult strats in the game
Saying chain beams is worse than rez
Disagreeing with cooldown rez

And so on. Said subjects can come up in the flow of a discussion, but it’s perfectly fair to want to explore a specific issue further. That’s not spam


#492

My opening comment was literally a quote from him/her a few moments before this got posted.

The discussion in that topic was with him and others (includig me) but once he got countered he left the argument, stating he was already creating this thread.


#493

Maybe it was a an attempt to convey a similar point in a different way, to get more people to understand,

Or pherhaps this is another matter within the samr context

You sent a link about a titanium thread that was about bringing mass rez back

But this one seems.more like a lets disprove hid3 and rez,

Doesnt seem like the same thing


#494

For example, now in this thread, I’m comfortable saying that numbers for mass Rez only work for people who thought hide and rez was about a 10 second plus thing. If you take issue with hide n Rez but for it to be a thing at all, and time isn’t an issue, then it doesn’t matter how long mercy hid for the strat to be an issue for you.

This wasn’t really the nature of the previous thread tho. My comment wasn’t towards the focus of the intent of flow of the conversation in the other thread


#495

Probably one of biggest mysteries of Overwatch: why, when DPS are hiding and not contributing to the fight, to set up team wipe, it’s fine, but when supports or tanks are doing same, it’s suddenly bad thing?

Why it’s totally fine to hide for team kill (even while you leave your team at disadvantage), but it’s wasn’t fine to hide for team kill in reverse?

Then it’s still an issue, and will continue to be an issue, since it’s one thing to die for 5 players to return, but dying and not even resurrecting anyone encourages to hide.


#496

Given the possibility that the above post is intended to imply that I flagged the OP, I state here and now that I did not flag the OP.


#497

Many people, myself included, want Valkyrie to remain as Mercy’s ultimate, and more specifically, like Mercy in her current state as a whole


#498

Assuming this is a genuine question: It depends on the role.

Flanker DPS position themselves, hide, and then engage only when the rest of the team engages. The main exception is when spawn camping or trying to bait opponents into disengaging from the main team fight.

Also, every other ult in the game is intended to work with your team during a team fight or provide some sort of zoning at the very least (e.g., DVa, McCree, Hammond, and new Torb). Without exception, every other ult in the game works better when working with your team.

Mercy’s mass rez was the only ult that actually didn’t punish lack of teamwork.


#499

That’s why you needed your team to save their ults, so you can resurrect them and turn fight around. Otherwise resurrect could result in your team pointlessly dying second time and giving enemy ult charge.

A bit like opposite of graviton: you resurrect teammates, they deploy their own ults from different directions at once. Unless enemy team manages to neutralize them all, they are likely to get wiped.


#500

I disagree. If the simple issue is to hide and rez at all, that’s going too far into the territory of demanding how a hero be played. Some symms were aggressive, others passive some reins are aggressive, some firestrike pharah out the air.
It’s a strat. Not always the best, not always the worst.
It only is an issue if negativity comes from it. Thus it’s an issue because Mercy hide n Rez made Mercy’s team lose. It was a bad strat most of the time.
But it being a thing at all is no different than waiting to use trans for grav, or a six man high noon. That’s the nature of learning and improving


#501

Yes it did. That’s why it sucked as a strat. It’s mercy not work with her team in favor of ult use. Which put her team at a numbers, sustain, and time disadvantage


#502

Imagine still arguing that it’s flaggable after it gets un-hidden by the mods. :joy:


#503

It’s not just ult use that made mass rez bad. It drew out games, because all teams would hold off on important ults until Mercy used her rez. Or she was confirmed killed.

There was nothing good about it.

It was a pub-stomp ult, though. Which pretty much meant nobody except the pub-stompers liked Mercy.


#504

That is how healer’s ult supposed to be: you don’t throw your most important ults in, until enemy healer spent their ult. Who is to blame for Mercy players not being too easy to bait out their ults?


#505

Not all supports. Zen and Lucio both have strong ults. Both also have strong counters to their ults.

But Brig ult could and should be used pre-emptively to initiate. Moira is used for initiating a team fight. Ana is definitely used for a team fight.

There’s also a belief that the off-support ults are way too strong.


#506

That’s on them. It was one ult that wasn’t that good. You knew how it worked and how to address it.

I liked that it punished ult stacking. I hate the nature of ult stacking now and free solo ulting and wish rez and old to were back to put this kind of game into place

I think all ults except sombras and Widowmaker punish lack of coordination.


#507

What do you mean “that’s on them”? Nobody likes 40 minute 2 CP matches.

Sombra’s ult is one of the most team dependent ults in the game. Widowmaker is in the middle. It’s not a team-wipe ult, but it’s a zoning ult (if you’re a god widow) or at least a wall hack.


#508

I do like longer games, especially on defense. As it means, that whatever we gathered for defense is holding strong.

Long games is where brute force stops being an important factor, and you need a plan. When “throw all we got” isn’t getting you victory.