Let's Revisit the Absurdity of "Hide and Rez"

[Absql-1290]

steals picture

[Zergotto-2668]

like, you have literally the other thread (by you) where a guy posted all videos and posts from kaplan and goodman where they said “no reverts or reworks”.
We know you are in denial, but come on.

[BigSadPanda-11507]

For a second, I thought you came to your conclusion after watching multiple different sources. I’ll just say that the opinions tend to wary from video to video, YouTuber to youtuber, streamer to stre

Noh that’s a level of detailed research I’ll leave to someone more engaged and capable, I’m just eating lunch and perusing the forums

Plus I’m not a very good statistical analyst, I’m sure theres someone better for the job than me

[SapphoSiren-1869]

The only hero I’m afraid of in valk is Widow tbh. Every one else on the roster doesn’t post much of a threat. But I agree. Mass rez’s counter was… simply don’t pour all ults in 1 fight and that’s not easy to explain throughout the ranks, from bronze up to GM/T-500. The games run different. The comps are different. The ult charge is different. Every other fight, higher ranks have ulti 'cause they know what advantages to take to build the meter. Lower ranks don’t quite take those opportunities very well and I think that’s where old mercy 1.x stood out. I’m not saying that bronze are crap and gm/t-500 are gods, it’s a whole different mind-set of a game between those 2 ranks and each step heading up. Valk was a good idea for the balance between ranks but not so much in replacing her powerful ult with something that feels immensely lackluster compared to her kit and background

[Nibelung-1264]

Also, on a related note, mass res was heavily inflated with the “overpowered” label because Ana was significantly nerfed to a point that Mercy provided a lot more than what Ana did at the time, making Mercy chosen more often.

That’s false. Mercy was never meta in pro or high ranked games until the Mothpocalypse. Even after Ana’s nerf, she was still often used as the primary healer for top tier games, or traded for Lúcio/Zen combination at the peak of Dive.

Mercy usage on ladder in season 5 (or was it 6?) and the exploding popularity of useless Mercy players that only farmed rezzes was because of an SR exploit. One that was fixed twice before the rework: First by making diamond and above ranks no longer using MMR to provide SR adjustments post-match, and one that was announced as a bug fix in the patch previous from the rework.

[PuffyPony-1639]

goodman where they said “no reverts or reworks”

He said they don’t currently have any on the table. That’s not to say they don’t have more planned in the future–heck, Goodman even said that they would probably look at reworking Bastion next, whenever they got around to it. You’re misrepresenting what he actually said.

[Zergotto-2668]

still, mass rez is most likely gone for good, so what’s the use of talking about it almost two years later?
And exactly, before they even think to rework mercy they have at least one hero to go through. And they’re not even sure about that hero.

Mercy was never meta

exactly.
Not even with ana nerfed and mercy with invulnerable mass rez was mercy a relevant pick.
So, how will return to a gimped mass rez (now that there are more counters than ever) be good for her? Even with a new E ability?
Talking about how mass rez fetishists think mass rez could be reintroduced with line of sight checks and cast time.

[Crusher55-11700]

Quick question, what is the point to all of this?

[Reverendpaqo-1797]

Which is why its a problem when people say it feels like sun baked crap to play her and her pick rates shifted as significantly as they did. Not because she “needs to be good/meta” or what ever people want to assume the desire is, but because for a lot of newer players, she IS the intro to healing and the hero a lot of lower players learning the game play. If it feels like garbage, that population isn’t going to stick around or they aren’t going to play healer.

DPS is way more fun to play than support for most people, and making the most accessible support feel deceptively unimpactful and boring is only going to hurt the game’s role distribution more.

[Absql-1290]

Generally just agree with this. BUT…

sun baked crap

I did not need this detailed image in my mind

[Reverendpaqo-1797]

Quick question, what is the point to all of this?

For Mercys to make the point people repeatedly dismiss and counter with over simplifications and logical fallacies due to being tired of seeing Mercy posts, which in turn makes Mercys post it even more and makes people even more tired of seeing it.

Basically its a pointless circle, so I guess try to enjoy the ride?

[Crusher55-11700]

Looks like it’s getting flagged.

[Reverendpaqo-1797]

Truthfully it would have been anyway. Regardless of the merits or if it was completely original discussion.

[Sideway8-1309]

Statistics aren’t anecdotal.

I notice you ignored the point I said you’d ignore because it was a problem with mass rez that had nothing to do with hiding.

[Crusher55-11700]

Honestly, I don’t really see the point in making this thread. It’s not going to do anything but stir up controversy.

[Greylai-1828]

The ability currently in the game, wouldn’t be in the game if not for Mass Rez and the outrage/ controversy surrounding it hadn’t existed.

Also the “hide and rez” thing often comes up when discussing any sort of new ideas or changes to Mercy’s current kit, therefore its prudent to discuss that particular idea and challenge it if we want to move forward.

Mass Rez is also still a sticking point for people when they discuss any sort of Mercy balance change, people will often refer to Mercy 1.0 with Mass Rez.
Mass Rez happened and it affected how people view Mercy and how they will view Mercy, pretending it didn’t doesn’t help anyone.

Like the large number of OTHER suggestions multiple people have made on the forums that simply get buried because none of you actually want to hear any ideas and just want to sit there and be mad that we are still motivated enough to care?

Or trying to show another viewpoint when it comes to a widley held belief that many see as a misconception.

I didn’t see a title on this thread saying " bring back mass rez now blizzard oh my god."

Forgive the mild sarcasm, I’m just tired of seeing people make this argument when what you’ve just asked for " something else to talk about that isn’t mass Rez" has happened and is happening and nobody reads it.

I myself have spent the time and effort to come up with my own idea. What does your comment really contribute to the discussion?

The ability currently in the game, wouldn’t be in the game if not for Mass Rez and the outrage/ controversy surrounding it hadn’t existed.

Also the “hide and rez” thing often comes up when discussing any sort of new ideas or changes to Mercy’s current kit, therefore its prudent to discuss that particular idea and challenge it if we want to move forward.

Mass Rez is also still a sticking point for people when they discuss any sort of Mercy balance change, people will often refer to Mercy 1.0 with Mass Rez.
Mass Rez happened and it affected how people view Mercy and how they will view Mercy, pretending it didn’t doesn’t help anyone.

This has kinda been addressed, but;
there are a lot of comparisons to be made between mass rez and valkyrie, between Mercy 1.x and mercy 2.x

Reverting to mass rez is not and has never been the only option put forward, of only the ideas I have seen there are over 20 different ideas that people have suggested and these suggestions are made better by discussing what worked and didn’t work about Mass Rez and what works and doesn’t work about Valkyrie.
Not even going into the rabbit hole that is people perception of fun in Mercy 2.x vs Mercy 1.x there are many many threads/ comments on that as well.

(edit: I always forget to mention, not a mass rez fetishist, don’t think its the best option. Pretty sure they need to implement signatures on the forums so i can stop typing this. )

[Greylai-1828]

Is there truly much difference between “stir up controversy” and “promote discussion” besides perspective?

Getting people to talk about an issue challenged their beliefs and brings it to light for those that weren’t aware of it. cough Devs * cough*

[Crusher55-11700]

Promoting discussion and stirring up controversy aren’t mutually exclusive, mainly in that the former can lead to the latter.

[RaysofGlory-1937]

In that case she should be reverted then, right?
If she isn’t or never was meta, I dont see an issue reverting her

[PuffyPony-1639]

Well, right, like Greylai said. Kinda just depends on your perspective.