Kaplan on diversity and inclusivity - a MUST watch/read

[VenusArmani-1354]

Yeah. I like the one you chose more. Thanks for hearing me out.

[HolloH-11824]

@VenusArmani-1354

Pride is about inclusion.

Yes it’s technically is about literally everything. But just like a majority of the people know that the rainbow icon called a rainbow is very much associated with the LGBTQ+ and basically used for that purpose (few people actually want to represent rainbow), The majority of the people know that the LGBTQ+ movements is basically only concerned with LGBT, everything else is just thrown in there for completion sake. At least for right now. Who knows if one day LGBTQ+ movements will ever actual do something for straight people and/or whatever is represented by the “+”. But for right now, realistically everything else is a technicality & arguing points for the movement.

[SleepyDwarf-11222]

Basically this. You can’t be invlusive of people you don’t represent.

[ƕlĸ-2818]

@SleepyDwarf-11222

You can’t be invlusive of people you don’t represent.

I think that’s largely the point that Jeff challenges. You don’t have to represent everyone, you just have to make the game’s world one where everyone feels welcome and all walks of life become a possibility - and letting the fan base make of that universe what they will.

Which is why I think if you want the rainbow icon to represent Pride there is nothing stopping that from being the reality for the fan base. Whether the developers call it that or not doesn’t really matter.

Chu noted that the developers aren’t attempting to appease every fan or create a character to represent every region. He’s hopeful players will find different aspects of themselves in the heroes of “Overwatch.”

• https://apnews.com/article/040c5ea003ef42918156decb427e4161

“Earth was very challenging for us as a team. It hadn’t been a space we were used to. When I talked about the diversity of the heroes in Overwatch, a lot of people wanted to know if we’d represent someone from every country. But there are hundreds of nations. We’re not the type of game where we’re going to have hundreds of heroes, or at least not anytime soon.”

With 193 countries counted as members of the United Nations, this is clearly impractical. But there are entire regions of the world that have been sorely unrepresented in gaming.

"If you have a game with a couple of heroes from one single walk of life, and then a hero is added from a different walk of life, then there’s a big conversation about that,” Kaplan says. “But once you hit a level of diversity that’s broad enough, then the conversation totally shifts. You cross a certain threshold where I think people expect and understand that anything is possible.

“So we created a universe where, at any moment, people can believe that anyone from anywhere might be the next character, I don’t think anybody would be shocked by a South Pacific islander or an Italian. So in Overwatch it was less about that obligation that we had to represent everybody and more about creating an approachable, welcoming world, where people feel safe and comfortable.”

• https://www.polygon.com/features/2017/3/20/14960924/overwatch-diversity-jeff-kaplan-interview-blizzard

Really what was happening through this whole process is that the world that we were building and the heroes that we’re creating no longer belong to us.

The fans of overwatch, through fanfiction, through cosplay, through the most amazing fan art that I’ve ever seen started to take over the world building and the intellectual property for us. You can ask the overwatch fans who’s dating who in the overwatch lineup and it’s actually kind of amazing.

They have stories for all the heroes and what their love lives are and we love it. We think it’s the best thing ever that it belongs to them. We now think of ourselves - Blizzard and the overwatch team - we are just the custodians of the universe. We’re taking care of it for what our community is going to create moving forward.

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-mh2hJDaGQ

[Decide-11427]

@ĿȀŖǠǂ1ǾǂƑPŜǃ-2660

I see some contradicting here:

@ƕlĸ-2818

I think it’s really interesting that people think that diversity was the goal of the Overwatch team when it was not.

@ƕlĸ-2818

Really what the goal was, was inclusivity and open-mindedness.

They are both pretty much the same thing.

And even if diversity wasn’t the goal, at the end of the day it turned to be the case anyway. Even the new VAs that they are acquiring are native speakers for the countries that they have to represent.

“Inclusivity” does not mean seeking out and forcing diversity as part of design; it means welcoming all regardless of their backgrounds, creeds, genders, relationships, etc.

“The world could always use more heroes;” where they come from - and what they look like, sound like, believe, etc. - doesn’t preclude them from being part of Overwatch. If someone wants to join and they have something to contribute then let them join.

Considering the generally-negative light in which many people speak about “forced diversity” (which is clearly what he is addressing here), dismissing the intentions of the developers just so you can hand-wave and say “it’s all the same in the end” comes off as a bad faith take on the subject.

---

For example, a gaming group/clan/community that promotes the inclusion of female gamers as a rule is likely to naturally acquire and retain female gamers over time, because the expectations for the atmosphere and decorum for the group have been established at the outset.

Another group, 100% dudes with no expectations of inclusivity as a group, would probably react in a much more negative manner if someone forced them to include a couple of female gamers for no other reasons than diversity. I think we’ve seen enough right here on this forum to know how those dudes would react, and we know the type of atmosphere it would create.

Intent matters.

[ƕlĸ-2818]

@Decide-11427

“Inclusivity” does not mean seeking out and forcing diversity as part of design; it means welcoming all regardless of their backgrounds, creeds, genders, relationships, etc.

Precisely and with Overwatch I think we’ve crossed the threshold where that is already the reality. I don’t think we need a hero from every single LGBTQ+ identity distinction to have a game that is welcoming to those identities. Some individuals seem to continually demand representation of their specific identity - but “representation” in that sense was never the primary goal of the Overwatch team and I dislike how they pretend it is.

[Cennix-21762]

good guy Jeff

[Felhelen-1952]

Great quote, good takes, and a good game designer.

Man I miss Papa Jeff.

[SleepyDwarf-11222]

@ƕlĸ-2818

I think that’s largely the point that Jeff challenges. You don’t have to represent everyone, you just have to make the game’s world one where everyone feels welcome and all walks of life become a possibility

I agree on this point and I think I was overly broad in my response. Obviously, like you quoted, its impractical (if not impossible) to represent every kind of person.

But because representation is so fleeting, in things like Overwatch, they’ve unintentionally set up an expectation that, at the very least, most of the broad groups will be represented.

You don’t have to represent every single germanic country, but you should probably get at least one. Same with sexuality and gender identity. Representing every one is kind of unreasonable, but you should probably have at least one gay character.

@ƕlĸ-2818

Which is why I think if you want the rainbow icon to represent Pride there is nothing stopping that from being the reality for the fan base. Whether the developers call it that or not doesn’t really matter.

I think this is a different issue. I personally don’t care what the icon is called, I appreciate it nonetheless, but this ties into a thing with explicit support.

A lot of the frustration here is that people feel like blizzard is just trying to make money/build goodwill without risking any problems with Russia and China. I think it’s less about what the icon represents and more about how genuine blizzard is being.

[Dasaries-11327]

For me, the game has NEVER felt Inclusive.

There are METAS in this game. If it was inclusive. All heroes would be good under ALL situations and circumstances.

[ƕlĸ-2818]

@Dasaries-11327

For me, the game has NEVER felt Inclusive.

An excessive focus on inclusion can also be bad. Notably the direction that they seem to be going to appeal to the more supercasual player base. The move away from the focus on teamwork. Teamwork excludes a large chunk of the player base because it takes effort.

Changing the entire game‘s workings in the name of inclusion is not a good thing in my opinion. Metas will always exist. Having all heroes be good under all conditions is an unrealistic goal. it also leads to hero homogenization.

I just want them to make good games with interesting and unique heroes. If this means that they are diverse then that’s great as well but I would never want that to be the focus. It’s never been about representation for me either. I play games to play as someone else, not for the game to give me more of me.

The rainbow icon is a good addition. People have been asking for it for a long time. What I wouldn’t think of as good is if blizzard made a massive deal about it. It doesn’t affect the quality of the gameplay at all. Nor is it some kind of artistic accomplishment. So why should a big deal be made about it?

[havaldar-1864]

This may be a hint of why the icon was labelled “rainbow” and not “pride”. “Diversity and Open-mindedness”

But, mostly it’s for marketing.

[ƕlĸ-2818]

@havaldar-1864

But, mostly it’s for marketing.

Possibly yeah but this is an interesting read as well:

The decision to construct such an assorted cast apparently wasn’t motivated by the bottom line. Kaplan said the studio didn’t use any player demographic data gathered by publisher Activision Blizzard Inc. over the years to conceive characters that might generate more sales in particular regions of the world.

Chu noted that the developers aren’t attempting to appease every fan or create a character to represent every region. He’s hopeful players will find different aspects of themselves in the heroes of “Overwatch.”

https://apnews.com/article/040c5ea003ef42918156decb427e4161