I’m against any automated system attempting to ban people the moment they send a message by detecting phrases. All it takes is a typo, someone named Ky to attempt to show ownership of something but choose not to use punctuation, or the system detecting words ending in ky and the second word starting with s for innocent players to become harmed.
I’m all for punishing those using it, but not at the cost of innocent people getting caught up in the chaos.
Basically nothing in chat should be a permanent instaban. Basically nothing in chat should be a ban at all without a prior history on the part of the offender.
Players can mute people who are being toxic in chat and voice. Blizzard can disable someone’s ability to use chat. Both of those are perfectly reasonable actions to take in the event of someone being offensive in chat.
“K Y S” isn’t okay to say to people, but its not really any different than 2004-era Xbox Live where everyone ran around using “g a y” or its more vulgar slurs as insults. Point being its toxic as hell but shouldn’t be taken so seriously, it’s just internet craptalk.
Now, if we’re talking about an individual who sits through his chat suspension and then continues the same behavior, that should ramp up and become a permanent mute at some point, if not a ban. But an outright ban for chat right out of the gate is stupid.
At the end of the day, if someone is so close to the edge that seeing “k y s” in match chat from an anonymous kid mad about video game performance pushes them over the line to actually do it, they would have to already be incredibly unstable and in all likelihood would have been pushed to that point by just about any personal attack intended to make them feel worthless. I don’t think the particular phrase is super important here.
I want to be clear that such chat definitely should be actioned, but it should be -all- excessively inflammatory chat equally (investigated upon report, not automation - some people don’t get offended so easily), and it should start with chat suspensions and ramp up from there, no immediate game-wide perma bans.
0 risk to what? the Jerk receiving any actual knockback beyond a silence/banning, very true… but that’s not what I’m worried about. 0 risk to actual life and limb for the victim? not so. What was said was said and cannot be unsaid. Someone may take it the wrong way and now we have someone dead because “lol jk”.
Yes, but right now someone commenting “lol get rekt nubs” has the same weight and punishment progression as racist and hateful/harmful BS and that really needs to be stopped sooner rather than later.
And I said this before: I do not support the instaban for simply having those letters in your text.
Being intolerant of hate and possibly harmful language is hardly a failing. Blind catchalls aren’t the solution but the problem is the system doesn’t have any urgency for the truly deplorable things that people can do.
I’m surprised at how many replies on here are so for telling people to kill themselves. I get that it’s just an acronym people use on the internet, and isn’t meant literally (at least most of the time, I’d hope), but even a little push like that may be too much for someone teetering on the edge, and already thinking about ending their life. Personally, I’ve known a few people who have ended their own lives, and one in particular did it a few days after someone was being abusive in game chat (not overwatch, but still). Now, I don’t know for sure that it was related, but it certainly could have been.
Is it that hard to just not be a dick? I get that sometimes, especially in comp, the game can get frustrating, and things are said, but is it too much to ask for people to just try to avoid saying things like “kill yourself” to others?
And to those who say “just mute them”: The damage is already done by that point.
Also, to those saying that these people should be getting help instead of playing online games: In my experience, a lot, if not a majority, of people who are suicidal DON’T seek out help, because they are ashamed, or feel that no one can help them, or that they don’t want anyone to stop them. A lot of the time, no one can tell if someone is depressed, because they don’t show that part of themselves to others.
Anyway, about the instant ban, probably not a good idea to have an automated ban for things like this. The combination “kys” can be found in other words that may be used. However, if it were reviewed, I would be fine with a two-strike policy on this. One warning, simply for younger people who speak like this to learn not to, but if they do it again, yeah, a perma-ban is fine. If it helps lower the chance that someone will take something like KYS too strongly, and do something terrible, then to hell with everyone else, I’d say that’s a good step forward.
In conclusion (because I know this post has gotten way longer then I expected it to be) just be kind to each other. No one knows what someone else really feels, and there’s no real reason to be “toxic” to another human being when playing a video game. Because that’s all it is.
(*I apologize for the long response, and if you bothered to read the whole thing, then thank you. 
)
I read the whole thing and I salute you for your mature and compassionate perspective! I wish I was as good at remaining calm about such an emotive issue ![:smiley:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=6" ":smiley:")
Victim? Theres no crime here mate, dont make a criminal case because theres none. Also most of these cases are not falling out off the sky like rain, there are some HEAVY trading of insults and then someone says the magic words. Dont push that narrative of black and white because its dishonest.
You cant kill someone IRL through a videogame. Thats what i was referring to and you know it.
That can be said about … pretty much anything? Not a valid reasoning.
I dont know where are you getting this from but its false.
Contact a GM and he/she will confirm it to you. I sent a request like 3 years ago because my friend got a warning for saying something “like F off rogue” and the other dude responded with something like “Yeah calling your friends huh F word, hope your family dies of cancer” .
Confirmed they strike WAY HARDER the second sentence (couldnt say the exact penalty because its illegal, against privacy whatever).
But you support that report being reviewed and instantly granting a perma ban to all 100% of the cases, do you? Because its the same, you are just delaying the punishment.
One thing is being intolerant about bad things happening and the other is showing 0 empathy and OVERPUNISH, like in this case. If you start throwing insta bans (or delayed after review) for that, the field is open : Lets add lethal disseases, etc…
Its very easy to side with the “victim” and not understand that MANY people have REALLY bad days and say something that they regret afterwards and they shouldnt be insta banned. That is called self righteousness for you mate, because some people here clearly are speaking like they are the divine justice. A very safe position.
they’re just people trying to be contrarian about things.
like it’s okay to think differently, but thinking this is permissable is something else and most of the people like that are probably the problematic parts of the playerbase tbh, and that’s coming from someone who played MW2 heavily back in the day…i just find it funny how KYS is okay, but the devs felt it was SOOOOOO important to censor ggez.
ironically these people are the same people that complain about the state of the game.
Just because someone didn’t commit a crime doesn’t mean someone didn’t suffer for it. No I DON’T know what you mean or I wouldn’t have asked. You most definitely can influence someones state of mind and feelings or the whole “I’m just tilting them so they play worse” mentality wouldn’t exist. I never said it was an epidemic either, but you cannot say this never happens with any more authority than I can say it does.
You can say anything about anything, does that invalidate anything anyone has ever said? What kind of reasoning is that?
… so your friend huh? Considering it’s against policy to discuss punishments with anyone but the person being punished I have doubts either you heard this from the GM about your friends punishment or your friend was told details about someone elses punishment.
Didn’t say that either. To state my position: I support a harsh initial punishment with possibilities for redemption (banned until contact is made to discuss what was said and how it isn’t OK) and possibly a permanent ban on the 2nd infraction depending on context and circumstance.
Oh yes, let’s equate losing game access to death sentences. Really?
I have crappy days just like everyone else and I have days I do say things I don’t mean. I still haven’t ever told someone to kill themselves or that they’re some sort of slur. Why? Because I learned early on that it wasn’t OK ever. Being banned from a game isn’t like being sentenced to life in prison. You can play other games or start again with another account. Yes it would suck to lose all progression on that account but that’s why punishments are effective, if you risk little the punishment means nothing. The very important step here is people need to know WHY they lost their account… which right now also doesn’t seem to always be apparent. That needs to change.
imho people who want draconic punishments are just as bad as people who casually throw around morbid insults
two sides of the same coin, both extreme positions
ok maybe not a super long time ago, but when playing dungeon keeper 1 or 2 online or total annihilation, you’d sometimes get that stuff… specially on dungeon keeper because cheats worked online… yippy!!
I don’t doubt that people said it… because people come from all over and I’m sure those absolute gems were around even then… but it certainly wasn’t a thing. …maybe it’s just the rose tinted bifocals XD.
I thought this finally died 300 posts ago…
The out of logic statement you threw about people commiting suicide or dying because someone said something in a videogame is pretty far fetched and yes, im positive that if that thing was even remotely “a thing” it would be so documented and so exploited by media we wouldnt be even able to play videogames without a legal statement bla bla.
Its not the case so yeah. You tried to paint a black and white picture, hyperbole/extreme case in favor of your point and i busted you. Nothing else to see here.
It absolutely does.
Oh im not going to do “this thing” because someone may take it the wrong way and now we have someone dead because of “this thing”.
That can be applied to pretty much anything worth a suspension and spoiler alert : A trigger of a symptom is not the illness so yeah. Not a valid point.
Oh let me get this right : You are painting a picture with a situation where “someone might say a thing and some other could take this wrong and kill themselves or kill someone else” as a valid point, but my ticket with a GM, asking about the penalty system and giving 2 examples so he could confirm that one is considered worse than the other is incredibly hard to believe?
Got it. Not double standards at all.
Then we agree, but check the title of the post mate. Here they are advocating for an INSTANT BAN for something. I think you should try to lean more to this side of the grass if you actually believe what you just wrote, but hey, you do you.
No worries.
Huh ?
What i said is that just because 2 dudes argue against each other, and they insult each other and say TERRIBLE things to each other, we shouldnt INSTABAN someone and leave the other with a mere suspension. If we are empathic, we are empathic with everyone, not with the “side” that suits our argument or is easier to side with. Thats dishonest.
You are you, the other dude is a different dude. You dont know anybody’s life or culture or whatever. Nobody should EVER be NOT given a second chance and get an instaban for something like that.
There are other things that could grant it, like i said, but they are not letters on a screen.
No no, dont stray off the point please. We are not going there buddy.
There are WAY harsher things to say than that, for example the cancer sentence i said. How is that KYS deserves an instaban and the other a suspension? See where im getting at?
We shouldnt act self-righteous and throw extreme punishment like we are gods. We are not. No Draconic punishments, we are in 2019, we should act like it.
Yes, this exactly.
People who had no community at all suddenly had dozens or even hundreds of friends.
The early internet was amazing.
So it doesn’t happen because you’ve never read about it?
The idea that someone who killed themselves because one final straw of a interaction happened in a videogame is hardly far fetched considering the instability and vulnerability of the clinically depressed and likely wouldn’t have been in a suicide note or even evident to those who cleaned up after. You just get a dead person somewhere who happened to own a computer. How would anyone know how to piece that together?
Your logic truly is dizzying. A trigger isn’t the illness. … YES… but you still don’t dare suicide risks to kill themselves, even jokingly. If you’re gonna advocate for the next charity Blizzard supports to be anti-suicide organizations then that makes sense but in this context that’s completely unrelated. Just because something is the trigger and not the actual deep rooted problem doesn’t mean it’s just OK to keep doing it when it’s so easy to stop.
Your ticket with a GM that goes against established policies claiming they did something they consistently say they don’t do VS the idea that someone on the edge of suicide or in a deep depression could be adversely affected by someone commenting to them in a negative or hurtful manner? Yeah, there’s no double standard here, one is a claim based on known symptoms and problems with depression and the other is claiming that someone did something breaking multiple established rules of their operation.
If you read the thread, that part was refuted early on, but I honestly don’t expect someone to wade through 700 comments so I can understand the mistake there.
… dude:
YOU SAID IT.
I am empathetic, but I still cannot understand the fight to preserve possibly toxic language. Sure they should get a chance and once again, instaban isn’t part of my criteria.
once again… stop with the instaban, not my thing. I don’t know the other dudes life. I bet people have it FAR worse than me, but if they got time to play video games? They got time to not be a toxic pipe.
Words have power and wielding them like a child should get you treated like a child, you take away the toys.
Straying? I’m bringing you back to reality here. It’s a game suspension or ban, not a huge lifechanging fine or a loss of freedom. You can even buy the game again, generally on sale at that. If you cannot play nice with the other kids and not tease the sensitive kids you’re not welcome here.
Both of those things ARE horrible and I’d advocate a similar response to the cancer comment. What would make you think different? Considering the ingame language it’d be much more of a slog to filter out all the mentions of cancer, but I’d support a task force for that immediately.
Im about 600-700 hours into Destiny 2 myself with about 1000 hours into the original. You could call me a Destiny veteran.
In all my time in Destiny i’ve never met any hypersensitive people like that. Most (like 99%) of the community from my experience is cool with jokes like that, which is part of what makes it so much fun: you don’t have to think in this community.
How about no
So you can lie about anything and make it seem like an extreme weird, odd, really unlikely case is a norm without providing absolutely 0 proof and we have to take your word for it?
Double standards much mate? You cant say something and “just because you cant prove its false, it means is true”. Thats a fallacy pal, its called Ad ignorantiam. Good try but not, it didnt fly. Busted again.
Ive never said its OK to keep doing it so dont lie. Dont put words in my mouth.
Why do we have to make it for KYS ? why not for cancer? and many other illness?
HOW do you NOT see the reasoning?
False, you are putting words in my mouth again.
Its against the policies to say that someone got striked for X or not, what i asked is that if 2 persons said X and Y, who would be punished more? And yeah, that is not against anything and they responded.
Do it yourself instead of trying to prove something i know to be true is false.
You keep saying “not my thing” and again and again every word you say fits 100% on that criterial. I dont know mate, it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck … you say its a swan? ok, will have to take your word for it.
You should also stop trying to make it seem im saying “its ok to be toxic and no punishment should be added” which is absolutely false so yeah, agree on that.
Yes you are!
Because you are conviniently stray to apply REAL LIFE measures to a VIDEOGAME. You are applying REAL LIFE criteria to strike someone in a videogame, like a REAL LIFE THREAT to someone’s life was happening and that is WRONG.
You are basically saying that someone saying “KYS dude” is the same as :
Dont.You.See.How.Exaggerated.That.is ?
Again, i think we agree on most points but your thresholds are WAAAAAY OFF.
Good night buddy.
Imagine being so sensitive that you’d follow that advice.