Does Soldier “just delete” you with just primary fire?
That’s also 180dps and can headshot.
Run the numbers, you can’t get a respectable time to kill without flashing through any lower power levels absurdly fast.
You end up with something way worse than every other DPS with no advantage in range or accuracy or anything.
That is honestly not at all how I play Sym, and I’m not sure why you think that?
A good Genji isn’t even getting close enough for me to track, he’s smart enough to stay well out of my radius, and with only 3 turrets in my games people are often smart enough to just prioritize a different avenue that avoids my setup entirely once they know which side I’ve chosen to defend. If I’m lucky they’re on cooldown and I can try and set up as they’re pushing the engagement, but more often than not they don’t set up fast enough because the float time on those suckers is five damn years a piece.
I don’t mind there being better options, I get that these characters are meant to be Niche. My problem is that Sym 3.0 is significantly weaker and more defenseless than 2.0, and 2.0 was a freaking support. I could win duels more reliably with 2.0 than 3.0 ever could- heck, I had this debate when 3.0 came out and someone challenged me to a Symmetra Duel where they insisted that Sym 3.0 just couldn’t be budged from her spot if she was ‘set up properly’. I proved them wrong with several characters that I don’t even play!
3.0 has significant disadvantages, and one of them is that when people are near her, she is vulnerable. Her noodle gun is a STRONG DETERRENT.
Saying that you CAN track Genji is different than it’s EASY to track Genji. Sure, if you have that kind of tracking and aim, then great track away! But for her kit? For what she’s been, what she was BEFORE? Does it really make sense to make her new gun so aim reliant? Heck if I had that kind of tracking skill I’d play Ashe or Widow and get some strong value out of them, but I don’t, but now you’ve changed a character I used to be able to play well and made it so that her gun requires Widow like tracking 
What did Sym gain out of this? Why is this a ‘good’ change? If you’re making it harder for her then there’s got to be SOMETHING better, right? Oh but wait, there’s nothing better! The numbers are the same as they were before! And her orbs don’t even go through shields anymore, too. Yeah, her new gun is just great.
For me it’s not just about it being worse for the game or the playstyle it’s also about what makes sense for her and where she came from as a character. She’s so significantly different now than she used to be that playing her feels entirely different in ways none of the other reworks have done. Torb isn’t significantly different in playstyle after his rework, neither is Sombra or Mercy.
If you think that then idk what to tell you. I think differently, it was a unique gun that made her feel different from Zarya and I liked that a lot. I liked that it made her dangerous up close in a small radius, so that she wasn’t so freaking weaksauce in a fight. Now she feels like a glass canon that the second I get too close to anyone, I’m dead unless my team is on the ball and pocketing me.
I liked 2.0 Sym because it felt like she could command a space, there were games where I could maintain a point by myself with her and her 6 turrets by confusing the enemy and shield dancing strategically and using cover, and even if my team was stupid I could actually DO something to hold off the enemy long enough for them to get back. Now? Not a chance. You’re dead in the water if you’re a lone Symmetra, and that feels like crap.
Ha hahahaha!
Good one!
Let’s let Sym run around with a 180dps beam, 140dmg orbs, and 90dps slowing turrets, that’s a fantastic idea!
So you’re saying increase DPS and lower TTK yet again? Why not nerf other damage heroes down some? We need to STOP increasing damage of heroes! So many other aspects can be changed with Symm to make her flow more smoothly.
Also as others have stated, Symm’s biggest problem is her surviving.
Another post screenshotted for the twitter thread
Hell no are you insane?
i feel like it would be a bit too much, honestly.
yeah mathematically it makes sense i guess. but, i think it would be a bit too strong…?
Again? No, last change to Symm’s beam NERFED her damage.
Because you’d need to nerf pretty much ALL of them as ALL of them are way way better than Symm.
There’s only one hero with a worse TTK and that’s… guess who… Sombra. But even her, she needs to land just 2 headshots out of 23 body hits and she’ll frag a 200HP hero as fast as a beam that STARTS at 180dps. Assuming equal accuracy.
Not for Symm we don’t.
We need to stop buffing the damage of heroes who ALREADY have a fast time to kill.
All the other close range 200HP heroes manage.
Symm sucks because she has to fight for so much longer
Don’t forget to lie and say “he thinks 180dps is low” when I said it’s “not as powerful as most people think”
And thanks for proving my point.
What put a man on the moon?
Gut feelings or math?
Just do the math.
That’s more than a fully-charged Zarya, which is 170 DPS and only after a minimum of 16 seconds, which is the shortest time in which Zarya can use 3 bubbles to build to max charge. Sym can get to 180 in less than three seconds already but only by putting herself at risk. That’s the tradeoff and it needs to stay that way.
Lol I remember the “bug” that symmetra dmg had where she kill literally get a 5 k by holding down primary. As much as I enjoyed abusing that, let’s not bring it back.
I think you know that it’s WAY easier to hit with Sym’s giant beam than with Soldier’s individual bullets, which have spread and small projectile size.
Naw, Nerfing hitscan down alone would open the door for a LOT of dps heroes being more viable.
This is where you adjust other aspects of Symm’s kit to make her better. We don’t need to up her damage more.
While staying within 12m of the enemy? Nope.
Yes, but… while within 12 metres of the enemy.
That’s such a huige difference. And it’s not a big deal for Zarya’s bubbles to block damage, that’s what she’s supposed to be doing, this is a win-more.
That’s a HUGE “but”.
Even Sir Mixalot would have to draw the line at a “but” quite that large.
A hero with twice the HP and a 200HP personal bubble having a high beam is nothing like a 200HP Symm having a beam. Now you can’t give Symm the health and protection of a tank so what’s the alternative?
I guarantee you Soldier will land more hits at any range beyond 12m.
Much inside 12m Soldier’s spread doesn’t matter and headshots more than compensate. Let alone helix rockets.
The point is that Zarya literally cannot reach max charge in less than sixteen seconds no matter what she does. The other team can also just choose not to shoot her, completely denying her charge. The only way to deny Sym charging her primary is to run away or kill her. Even barriers charge it up AND return ammo to her.
I don’t think being within 12m is a big deal because Sym is meant to be brawling with her team, not 1v1ing people or running around alone. Her source of mobility is also a source of mobility for the rest of her team so there doesn’t have to be a time where she doesn’t have any teammates for backup.
Its 180 DPS. That’s exactly as strong as most people think it is.
If. You. Hit. Your. Shots. Remember that Soldier 76’s gun is unwieldy to most unless you practice the character. There’s a reason why, when Soldier 76 hits all of his shots and flattens a hero, people go “Woah, look at that Soldier!” His capacity to miss is what holds down is 180 DPS.
For Sym, you’re suggesting she just have 180 with no chance to miss and no way to lower her damage That’d be busted.
It’s a big deal for beams that are much thicker than hitscan. I wouldn’t mind a constant damage output like this, but it would have to be a lower value.
Yeah but then it’s really easy for her to keep it high.
Not when she runs into projectiles. What can you do, jsut not shoot because there’s a Zarya?
Reaper is a 250HP hero with lifesteal and wraith form
Mei is a 250HP hero with cryo-freeze and wall.
Genji is hyper mobile.
junkrat can deal 250 damage extremely quickly with combos and is mobile.
If people think it’s too strong for a 200HP low mobility hero to only use out to 12m then they think it’s more than it is.
Symm. Doen’t. Have. Auto. Aim.
Ironically… Soldier 76 is the hero who can ever get auto-aim and his 180dps is considered trash and for what reason? The lack of headshots.
What are you talking about, did you just step out of a time capsule from 2018?
Because it’s been over 2 years since Symmetra’s beam “couldn’t miss”.
Look on Overbuff, Symm has an average weapons accuracy of 30%
Soldier’s weapon’s accuracy: 37%
And he’s taking shots at way WAY further range.
But it’s NOT “much” thicker.
They’ve lowered it before.
Besides it just making Sym casual as hell the real downside is you force counters to be mandatory.
This would make easy stomp in low elo teaching nothing but the one hit crew of Roadhog, Hanzo, and Widowmaker would still make her useless in mid and high elos.
I think her teleporter needs to be faster and more synergy interaction to make her like Portal instead of a sitting duck that takes too long to escape anything to be useful.
As an ult, Soldier has Auto Aim. His ult is supposed to be instantly threatening, and only last for mere seconds, AND is invalidated by hiding behind a wall. I really don’t think its fair to compare soldier while ulting to Sym in her natural form.
No, you compare base Sym to base Soldier and see that is 180 POTENTIAL isn’t always going to translate to crazy damage.
I’m talking about W+m1ning up to enemies and have little chance to miss. If you do this to a tank, then you don’t have any chance to miss because they’re a broad target.
And for the record, I wish we were still in 2018 because I liked her weapon better there.
I think most people know what I mean by couldn’t miss, but if you want to take it literally, then realize that Sym has an easier time hitting her targets in her prime range than Soldier does in his.
The reason Sym’s 180dps is so significant, is because the beam is HUGE, and hence easy to hit and undeflectable. Also it yum yums all shields, which in general are soldier’s weakness!