Already beat it. 
They WON’T be until the 80% of players queing for dps stop being stiff necked and play other roles.
Please go play COD widow main i definitely wont miss the salt.
Here is difference between team play and non-team play:
- no teamplay: everyone else is your enemy, shoot them;
- teamplay: some of those players aren’t your enemies;
Says nothing about relying on your team to do anything.
Some of us are the ones who got sick of “fun is subjective” or just sick of filling in your games.
Also just pick tank or at least petition Blizzard to do something about how bad tank / support is to play.
As long as they are not fun / impactful to play you will face long queue times.
And the option to play with a stack of fellow players though the LFG tool, or just regular manual invites, to avoid the rare happening of getting 5 dps was there before 2-2-2 was inflicted upon the game, what’s your point?
Actually, they should implement one that affects even more negatively that part of the playerbase. One-tricking needs to be punished. 2-2-2 is not a solution, though, and not being able to play a game you paid for is just wrong. The punishment should come in diminished SR for one tricking a hero and/or a role, and said punishment should not be based on which hero you were on when the match ended, but on how long have you played each hero within each match.
For example:
Let’s say you one-trick Widowmaker, since you do. If you played 50%+ of each of the last 5 games as WM, a “one-tricking” alert pops up, and you get 50% reduced SR for the time you were playing as WM on your 6th map if you win, or you lose 50% extra SR if you lose. If you played 50%+ of each of the last 5 games as DPS, a “role-tricking” alert pops up and you get 25% reduced SR for the time you were playing as DPS on your 6th map if you win, or you lose 25% extra SR if you lose. In this scenario, triggering “one-tricking” would automatically trigger “role tricking” so penalties should not stack for that hero, but they should for any other you play on your 6th map.
Same thing if you played 8 out of 10 maps in the same hero/role
Let’s turn this into numbers: You are playing your 6th game. You’ve played 50%+ of each of the last 5 games as WM. You play 64% of this 6th game as WM. “One-tricking” gets triggered. And 36% you played as McCree. “Role-tricking” gets triggered. Let’s say this game would earn you 100 SR (just to make it simple). 64 of those SR would be subjected to 50% SR reduction. 36% of those SR would be subjected to 25% SR reduction. Instead of 100 SR you win:
-
64% Widow+36% McCree: (100 * 64% * 0.5) + (100 * 36% * 0.75) = 59 SR
-
64% Widow+36% Lúcio: (100 * 36%) + (100 * 64% * 0.5) = 68 SR
-
64% McCree+36% Widow: (100 * 64% * 0.75) + (100 * 36% * 0.5) = 66 SR
-
64% McCree+36% Lúcio: (100 * 64% * 0.75) + (100 * 36%) = 84 SR
-
64% Lúcio+36% Widow: (100 * 64%) + (100 * 36% * 0.5) = 82 SR
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64% Lúcio+36% McCree: (100 * 64%) + (100 * 36% * 0.75) = 91 SR
Now let’s imagine you lose, and should lose 100 SR, in the same exact cases. Instead of 100 SR you lose:
-
64% Widow+36% McCree: (100 * 64% * 1.5) + (100 * 36% * 1.25) = 141 SR
-
64% Widow+36% Lúcio: (100 * 64% * 1.5) + (100 * 36%) = 132 SR
-
64% McCree+36% Widow: (100 * 64% * 1.25) + (100 * 36% * 1.5) = 134 SR
-
64% McCree+36% Lúcio: (100 * 64% * 1.25) + (100 * 36%) = 116 SR
-
64% Lúcio+36% Widow: (100 * 64%) + (100 * 36% * 1.5) = 118 SR
-
64% Lúcio+36% McCree: (100 * 64%) + (100 * 36% * 1.25) = 109 SR
They could also add a “request hero change” option, and if you are asked by the whole team to swap and don’t, you get diminished SR (or you lose extra SR). If you are asked by 3+ players to swap and don’t in 2 consecutive maps, you get diminished SR (or you lose extra SR). If you are asked by 3+ player to swap and you don’t in 3 out of 5 maps, you get diminished SR (or you lose extra SR). To avoid being bullied by a stack, grouped players could count as half each, so a 4 players stack counts as 2 votes, yet if the 5th one also requests you to change it still counts as “whole team,” but a party of 2 only count as one, and players 3 and 4 should still ask you to swap.
This way, one-trickers should actually be encourage to stop one-tricking. Add this to what Obsidian suggested on a different thread:
(Basically, the same as bugged QP role-lock from the first day of 2-2-2 beta, but with a 3 characters per role limit.)
Boom! Problem actually solved!
EDIT: This would not fix GoaTs, though, which is the reason they rushed 2-2-2 (OWL ratings were dropping, since GoaTs matches are boring, but not as boring as the current Sigma+Orisa/Reaper+Doomfist/Lúcio+Moira meta), that should be eased out through balance.
EDIT 2: I said “1 match every 5 in off-role or lose SR” but it can be “1 every 4” or “2 every 5” or whatever number you want. And I’d even add a more severe punish to those who insist in one-tricking: Continuing with the numbers I used as example, after 5 matches you get 25/50% diminished SR, after 10 matches you get 50/75% diminished SR, and after 20 matches you don’t get SR at all. One-tricking solved.
EDIT 3: SlayerAdam has pointed something that I didn’t foresee with my non-one-tricking mind: One-trickers might choose to remain in a low rank and continue to one-trick, so that they can “take revenge” on players playing the game as it was conceived (i.e. flexing). I’d also add a season comp ban after X matches one-tricked. Let’s say, 4 matches: 50% diminished SR. 8 matches: 75% diminished SR. 12 matches: 100% diminished SR. 15 matches: Comp Season Ban, see you next season.
Unless you’re a DPS player with a slow computer.
In that case you would not be allowed to pick the 4th DPS slot, which we can mostly agree is a good thing, but the 3rd might be available.
That’s a big “might”.
This proposed solution causes the following problems:
-Getting too many DPS mains, Support mains, or Tank mains on your team. Someone will often have to fill instead of playing what they’re good at.
-Being unable to practice your off-roles. Since you don’t know what role a player will be before the match starts, you can’t give players a separate SR for every role. So players will be stuck playing their “main” role forever if they want to win, and they’ll have to make a smurf account to play their off-roles.
-Giving an unfair advantage to people with a faster computer. If roles are given out on a first-come, first-served basis, then people with a faster computer will load in first and get the privilege of choosing whatever the role they want, forcing people with a slower computer to fill.
That was a problem before 2-2-2 and continues to be a problem now, with DPS one-trickers queuing as supp/tank to avoid queues, and milking their pre-2-2-2 ranking
You should practise in QP, to begin with. And being there can be up to 3 of the same role in each team, you should be able to practise whatever role you want most of the times. And you do know before the match starts, when you are picking your hero and seeing what your team-mates pick.
I also said there wouldn’t be role SR, I don’t see that as a problem, though. Role SR is something new that is not even fully implemented, since everyone is still placed based on their previous global SR. And if you want to one-trick, you’d get diminished SR, you are actually pushed to play your off-roles.
Yet there will be less filling needed. At the same time, there will be less one-tricking, so there will be more people inclined to change roles. And tbh, your extremely niche example is not actually that big of an issue, taking into account that, save for one-trickers, most people don’t insta-lock. Those one-trickers could get “requested to swap,” as I proposed, and if they refuse they would get punished.
At the same time they could leave the “role picking” panel so that you can offer which role you want to play, instead of being locked into it for the whole match.
All in all, the only ones losing would be the one-trickers.
EDIT: And I do know it’s and extremely niche problem: I play on an AMD FX-8350 (7-y-o processor) with a Sapphire R7 370 (4-y-o), not precisely playing on the faster rig, here, and I can’t remember the last time everything was already picked before my game loaded.
If you’re queueing as supp/tank to avoid queues, then you’ll go down to an appropriate SR for Tank and Support. This is a non-issue in 2-2-2, as far as I’m concerned.
The main purpose of role-based SR is to let you play the role that you like, without worrying about tanking your SR because you’re a Diamond Support but a Gold Tank.
In an ideal world, perhaps. In the real world, 3 people will insta-pick DPS, and you (A DPS player) will be forced to fill.
Again, in your ideal world, this might be the case, but the law of unintended consequences exists. I think it’s much more likely that a lot of people would be inclined to quit. Based on DPS queue times, we’ve already seen how many people have zero interest in playing anything outside of DPS.
It’s not a niche example, it was a very common occurrence in Competitive matches. There were even animated videos depicting this very common occurrence:
Lucky you, because I see it happen all the time.
It is. As I said, current placements are still based on pre-2-2-2 global SR
So? I’m not arguing the purpose of roleSR. This way, instead of that, you would get a global playerSR. And since you have to play different roles or get punished, your globalSR would be fairly balanced between your main and off roles
That didn’t even happen that much before 2-2-2, stop the fallacy. And when you are force to flex or you get punished, more people will be willing to. It’s basic math. Plus, you continue to ignore my original idea, there’d be tools to avoid that happening. Hell, they might even add a short-term comp ban or an SR drop if you insist on one-tricking with diminished SR.
You are not considering they will have a chance to play DPS. Now they either fill or they have to waste 50% of their time online (and this is only if you are getting 10 minutes queue for every 10 minutes match). This way they’d be occasionally forced to fill, lower the “alert” from 5 to 4 matches, if you want it to happen more frequently
It is, I play on a slow rig, and I rarely had that problem. The main problem with the 3+ DPS one-trickers was the 4th, 5th or 6th dps picking long after there were already 3 dps. So yes, it’s a really niche problem. Plus, lots of people (if not most of them) go AFK/Alt+Tab during queues.
How can you? It’s not even physically possible anymore.
EDIT: I’m starting to believe the part you are against is the one-tricking punishment, since you insist on clarifying you are a dps player
…the same point as you i think? DPS players can do the exact same thing now - use LFG and manual invites. Press the right buttons and you can solve your own problems.
Sure, they can, so why, if the one solution is the same as before, should players who aren’t dps-one-trickers get less of a game, then?
There’s no button to press to get classic comp. There’s no button to press to get one-tricking cancer punished. There’s no button to press to get players into their right SR, instead of having them placed in 2-2-2 based on their previous global SR. I can’t press the right button to solve my problems.
Because the game is better balanced and more fun?
If 1 trickers want more games, then do the things you suggested like 222 players had to before? You’re just complaining you have to do it now instead of other people?
This would punish people doing bigger groups where they want to play their roles and that is why they grouped up in the first place.
It’s not more balanced, actually, is far less so atm. It’s easier to balance, but at the moment it’s not. As for the fun part, that’s subjective. It’s less fun for me.
-Can you translate that, please? Can’t understand like AT ALL-
EDIT: Scratch, that, I got it. That doesn’t solve the problem, as it didn’t in the past. You were against being forced to LFG to play 2-2-2, yet you had the chance. Now it’s impossible not to play 2-2-2 (disregarding arcade modes), hence, there’s less of a game to play.
I always play in stack of at least 3 people. So no, I’m not. In fact, I haven’t complained about grouping up, I complain about one-trickers being rewarded and about getting less of a game. If you took the time to read, you’d notice that. What I did in my answers to you was to point out how flawed is your logic, that’s it. According to you, 2-2-2 was inflicted to solve a problem that was already solved by LFG, and generates more problems that are also solved by LFG (though not of them). If so, there’s no need for 2-2-2. Your solution to long comp queues is “play arcade,” that’s just idiotic.
Only if they one-trick. Believe me, there’s little to none one-trick support or tank players. There are main support and tank players, and they’d all be ok with flexing every few matches (since they are “main” and not “one-tricks,” which means they also have an “off-role”). It would also encourage more communication (asking for the role you need to play), it would encourage flexing (not necessarily within a determined match, but in general as a player), and overall, create better players who can better adapt to facing different comps (which we might get).
Plus, those who now send dps-onetrickers to “just grab a tank” and use LFG are the same who previously complained when told to use LFG to play 2-2-2, so “groups” don’t seem to be an issue in this autistic community.
The only real problem with this would be with OWL possibly getting back to goats (with Sigma instead of Zarya), but if they don’t have to waste manpower in trying to make 2-2-2 actually viable, they could spend those hours trying to fix goats, double barrier, or worse, double-barrier’d goats, through balance. Granted, it would be not as easy to balance as with 2-2-2, but would offer a much better experience, and what’s more important, closer to what Overwatch always wanted to be, was promoted as, and was bought for.
EDIT: And as I predicted way back when, 2-2-2 have born a far more strict meta: While goats had never been an actual issue in ladder, double-barrier (Barrierwatch) is, and guess what? It’s even more boring than goats, both to play and to watch.
Nah, having 2 tanks and 2 healers is definitely more balanced than 5dps. Sure, i’m as annoyed with barriers as everyone else right now (i wanna play the monkey or the hamster, not the horse or naked feet man). Long term balance will benefit.
Either way, the “LFG problem” still exists, its just been shifted round to 1 trick DPS players. Its just different people complaining - the less flexible ones that dont WANT To take the available solutions.
Sure, i shouldnt have said “you”. The logic still applies to people who DO complain though. My solution is “play tank, play QP classic, use LFG, invite friends”. Plenty of options - more than there were for those who didn’t want suprise 5dps games pre-222.
[laugh react]
Yeah, this is a single player game, I forgot.
Didn’t read my post, did ya? Where did I advocate for 5 dps? The proposed system would lock on three of the same role with no roleQ (similar to bugged 2-2-2 beta QP). And the proposed punishments would erase one-tricking as an option. And again, that’s a fallacy: 5 dps comps didn’t happen nearly as much as people is these forums claim since 2-2-2 was but an idea. And again, the multi-dps cancer came from one-trickers. Take out one-tricking as an option, and the problem is gone. Now they have to wait, sure, but they continue to one-trick, and a one-trick dps will always be harmful, no matter if you get 1, 2, or 5 of them.
As for balance, most heroes are still balanced for the previous system (i.e. GoaTs, since balance is made to suit OWL, which is what gives them money, so it’s perfectly understandable), with only two of them having got tweaked on live (2 or 3 more coming on PTR IIRC, though at least Symm’s tweaks come from Barrierwatch), so there’s a whole lot of balancing to do before someone can claim the game is more balanced, now.
Long term balance will become easier, sure, simply because there will be less game to balance. I don’t want less game.
Actually, the “more flexible ones” (to use your words) didn’t want to use it either, just read some old 2-2-2 threads. And if the LFG problem still exists, 2-2-2 solved nothing in the bigger picture.
People wanting to avoid 5dps games could use LFG and invite frieds, as well. QP classic is arcade, can’t even be considered half of an argument. And my idea actually rewards flexing roles. But let me ask you personally: what’s the one option for those who don’t want to play 2-2-2, but want to play comp? Can I LFG 2-1-3, for example?