Then you’ll easily get to top 500 with him. Good luck.
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We are talking volume as in m^3,
You’re thinking the game is the same as reality.
It’s okay. I had this problem too once upon a time.
3D games with physics engines are only simulating physics. They don’t actually obey the laws the same way we do.
Here’s an example to illustrate my point…
If you throw a ball at a wall, the ball will pass through the entirety of the infinite points between you and the wall along it’s path before it bounces. The “impact”, in this case, indeed happens like you suggest: When the ball’s surface area makes contact with the wall.
In a game like Overwatch, this is not how things work. Because the computer calculates in discreet cycles a spherical object, like a JR 'nade, won’t occupy every single one of the infinite points between you and your target.
Instead, every “tick”, the server will update the grenade’s position based on the “time delta”, or the amount of time that has passed since the last tick, and the grenade will, in essence, teleport to its new position instead of passing through every point between where it was and where it now is.
This is why it’s a volume calculation and has nothing to do with surface area.
It’s also why Junkrat’s grenades are prone to phasing through targets during times of bad packet loss. They’re so small now they teleport further than their circumference every tick, which means that they can “miss” things that move just right by not hitting an overlap calculation when they actually overlap (ADAD spam makes this much worse than it would otherwise be).
So, volume.
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I was wondering if things would be better if they made hitscan FTS and projectiles FTT.
Not that that would help junk any, but maybe it would feel more fair when people walked into the slowest projectile in the game.
It should certainly help against spamzo.
It boggles my mind that Blizzard acts oblivious to so much helpful knowledge of physics, math, and economics.
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They decreased the radius of the junkrat sphere.
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The thing about rat and I used to main him… in gold he was in EVERY
SINGLE
GAME
it just got old dealing with him game in and game out it just got old and frustrating. There was almost no way to tell the difference between 1 rat to the other outside of maybe positioning.
Yes, he’s great at stationary and large targets, no doubt.
He was okay like a year ago with the 0.3 size, my accuracy went from 25/30% to 15/20% so having more damage on a projectile that’s harder to hit, means nothing.
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Who said I have a hard time against him? I just get tired of seeing him so much
Good job explaining this!
But if it’s true, that’s a HUGE design flaw, and Blizzatd needs to fix it ASAP.
You can’t have an esport where one player is handicapped by having his tools stop existing periodically.
Imagine a football that vanishes from existence for a moment if it moves faster than 35 ft/s. And then losing a Super Bowl because it vanished right before a TD catch.
Well if that’s the metric then no players should deal any damage.
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Nah. They know exactly what’s going on. It’s just not easy to fix. It’s why, IMO, there’s a bit more to Favor the Shooter in OW than just the latency management they talked about one time at the GDC since, if it worked only as described, you would have serious problems peeking around corners during times of bad packet loss.
The real problem is that someone made a value decision and decided that it was more important to nerf junkrat than to make sure junkrat players have a good experience.
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Yes, and no players should leave spawn, or use their guns, or login to overwatch
See I can do it too
i tried playing him again and he seems perfectly viable on maps with chokes again
You can do what too?
And you are correct, if Blizzard did what you want it would make this game pointless, because someone else would say the same thing about your main.
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No that simple.
This is a problem in networking and physics calculations. Just in general. If you can figure out a solution, the entire industry will want to rain awards down atop your head. And that’s in addition to the Nobel Prize you’d be up for.
In short, the problem isn’t with Junkrat’s grenades. It’s with his targets. Losing packets as Junkrat is going to suck, but it’s not going to be much of a problem since the server will be able to perform it’s look-back operations and see if you should have hit something back in the past few frames.
Junkrat sees issues when his targets drop packets during times of indeterminate movement.
Assume the following:
You are standing just outside of a flying grenade’s path.
You are dropping packets.
The server will receive your position update putting you behind cover, or otherwise out of the grenade’s path. As you begin to ADAD spam, you’re going to start sending packets to the server telling it that you’re moving left and right, in and out of the grenade’s travel path.
Some of those packets get lost into the ether because internet.
If the packet getting lost is one of the ones telling the server that you moved into the line of fire, the server only knows the following:
- You were previously not in the line of fire.
- It received no message telling it that you moved into the line of fire.
- The grenade’s current position does not overlap with your current position.
As long as you don’t somehow trip a system that forces it to recalculate your position, there is no way for junkrat to hit you.
The other side of this is what the junkrat sees.
So, same as above, however the server sends a packet that you are now in the grenade’s path. It then sends a packet updating the JR to you moving out of the grenade’s path.
If the JR starts dropping packets he might not receive the second update which leaves you in the line of fire on his screen. This means his client knows the following:
- You are in the line of fire.
- It received no message that you were moving out of the line of fire.
- The grenade’s position (the server verified the launch position and vector to make sure it’s correct on your screen).
On your screen, you probably should have been hit.
On the server, it has no idea that you should have been hit. Therefore, you weren’t.
On the Junkrat’s screen, you should have been hit and probably were.
So now, the Junkrat’s client sends the “I HIT SOMEONE!” message to the server. The server checks the impact frame record and finds that, due to the dropped packets, that he missed and sends a negative message back to the Junkrat’s client. Because the explosion has already been rendered on his screen, Junkrat still sees the explosion (because that’s how time works) but you receive no damage on his client.
On your screen the grenade flies past you since you received no explosion message from the server about that projectile.
On the server no impact occurred.
In reality, an impact should have occurred because your movement message got lost in transit.
So, how do you fix this, exactly?
You can log messages and ask for any that got lost to be resent (some games do this). In fact TCP/IP protocols automatically do this, to my knowledge. The problem is that it’s slow. Like, take your one-way latency and x5 at a minimum. Also, how do you then handle mistakes in-game? Do you just suddenly blow up junkrat’s target 500-3000 ms after they should have died? What if they received healing in the mean time? Moved? Teleported?
What if they successfully killed someone with a hitscan weapon? Do you reverse the kill 2 seconds after it happened?
The only way to really fix the problem is to make his grenades larger so that near-misses end up clipping the target and set off the grenade. It’s what used to happen, but people whined until they “fixed” it.
Now they’re in “no easy fix possible”-land.
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In a 3d space with motion, it’s passing by an enemy.
Whether it triggers as it passes by, the cross-section area is all that matters.
Yeah, not sure why they took it down by 10 though.
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IIRC it was about his damage output when he is boosted. I’m not sure how I feel about that answer but I would argue Junkrat is a different case compared to other DPSes because he can still get value out of missed shots.