Orisa/Sigma, each with 350hp, and weaker Fortify/Grasp. (With no Mei either)
Hog/D.va, each with 600hp, and kinda 900hp on Hog.
Hog/D.va use speedboost+Matrix to get into close range.
Which team has the upperhand in the upcoming close range brawl?
The way I see it, not having an offtank, means that you get run over by Speedboost/Dive comps.
Much in the same way that not having an offhealer, with a big defensive ult, is a big liability for getting run over.
Also DoubleOffTank would have it’s own advantages, with raw HP advantages over Barrier compositions.
Also incidentally, by lowering the HP on those tanks, it would be putting them into instakill range for PulseBombs. Which would drastically benefit Dive compositions.
This is absolutely the way it should work. In practice it doesn’t due to excessive CC and powercrept burst damage being able to stop almost any dive dead in its’ tracks.
In practice it doesn’t because Orisa goes CC immune with the equivalent of 800hp, as well as a team wide Displace/Slow.
Sigma throws out a Matrix that heals him, then throws out an unmatrixable flashbang,
And to top it off, Mei fulfills the function of an offtank, with Slows and Walls.
And by the time you cut through those selfpeels, it’s already been 3-6 seconds, all the Dive momentum is lost, and Lucio boops then just speedboosts them to safety.
Make them too defensive, and people will find them unfun. Make them too offensive, and all of a sudden, they’re like DPS, but better.
Yes, it would be fun if tanks were like raid bosses, who no one could reliably 1v1, and required multiple players to take down. But that would just lead to things like Triple Tank, where there’s be tons of tanks on a single team.
It’s actually not as hard as you’re making it sound when the game is played in a 2-2-2 format where there has to be 2 of every role on every team. Triple tank meta is not a concern when there can only be 2 tanks.
Problem is the only way to accomplish this is either… give the tank damage to fight back… in which case they’re immediately nerfed because they can do enough damage to fight back. Or give them enough sustain and tank abilities to live through the dps… in which case they’re immediately nerfed because they can live through a dps attacking them.
In short, the dps community which is the majority of the player base just wants free ult charge
People don’t associate a Tank with people being able to do damage, just being a bullet sponge/shield bot.
I prefer the idea of being a slow, extremely dangerous thing that is very limited in its ability to deal extreme damage that warps the battle field around it. In OW at least they’re extremely reliant on other units to support its glaring weaknesses of range and size (increased damage taken). The Damage class ensures they’re not run over or easily outmanoeuvred and Supports ensure they aren’t ground down.
Theres a reason you don’t make an army full of a single unit
Popularity is not solely based around damage. It is also based around the appearance and how a kit works. Which is basically balancing around the subjective term of “fun”.
No, Overwatch always has been and should always be about unique characters with unique ways to impact the game. Making tanks more damaging and less tanky is the wrong way to go about balancing Overwatch on that fact alone.
I think we can also say that there are plenty of people who enjoy playing tank as well. Balancing based on the mob and what the majority thinks is fun is a terrible idea. Especially when a game is meant to have unique characters with different methods of having impact.
Considering the vast majority of Tank players are offtank players, and the goal is to make BarrierTanks as fun as OffTanks, I think the vast majority of “Tank Players” would approve.
Sure some people might not like it. But it’s pretty hard to dislike getting to do fun stuff and not feeling like your enjoyment is almost entirely dependant on what your teammates give you.
That said, considering when almost all the changes that I suggested get into the game, they are almost always highly appreciated.
And I’m a Tank Main.
You’d think I got a decent sense on how to make Tanks fun.
Ego the size of a blimp. Are you seriously citing yourself as an Authority? Sorry but arguments from authority only work if both sides of the discussion consider that source valid.
Which I don’t.
Being a Tank main does not make you the Arbiter of Truth.
I got about 40 changes into a game called PlanetSide, with various heavies called MAX Suits.
Including writing and hosting a mini installer that got 30,000 downloads, used in a guerilla marketing campaign, and was later copied by the devs.
I wrote a tournament server modification for a game called TRIBES, called Shifter_v1G with 40 servers running it, and about 20 teams, for about 2 years. With heavies including Dreadnaughts and Juggernauts.
And the amount of “coincidences” that the devs keep putting ideas almost exactly what I suggested into the game, including the really complicated ones, is stacking up higher and higher.
Including suggesting almost exactly the changes they went with, for Roadhog.
And for Mei (Which is almost a Tank)
Not to mention I’ve been talking about Tank balance concepts, constantly for the past 6 months.
lol? The biggest problem by far is the fact a tank can completely steam roll a dps since they do not even stand a chance. You can not make any plays outside of having a tank and if your MT dies
It is usually fight over. The overall value a tank brings I to high and it is easily due to the fact DPS in particular stand no chance against a tank except reaper.
However, citing yourself as an authority does not work for one reason.
Being involved in a field does not make you infallible. What is right for other “Class based shooters” is not right for another unique game with different demographics.
If you water down each game in a genre to the same basic formula you get nothing but reskined versions of the same game with slight mechanical differences.
I don’t consider you the end all be all of what is right or wrong for a game. I know what I like for a game and Overwatch is unique in the regards of how hero’s are designed. I see no reason to throw it out the window based on a subjective foundation.
Well, I certainly could be wrong.
But to me, this idea here is the best Tank concept I’ve come up with since November. ✅ Fixing BarrierTanks and OffTanks
And I think it’s strong enough to throw it onto the Experimental Card, and see if the community likes it, or I’m drastically wrong about it.
