You don’t want any support? What a weird post. I’m a support main, but I also enjoy DPS and tank. Tank is who controls the game.
This is not a condition, this is an explanation since you didn’t seem to understand it the past 4 or so times I explained it.
I fail to see where my original statement doesn’t align with this. You are incapable of getting a kill after sneaking up on a Support because they can kill you faster than you can kill them or they can fly away faster than you can chase. What’s not connected?
Yes…? They hit 1 dink and I’m required to turn around immediately… which is really not that hard to do with Kiriko or Illari.
I’m currently in EU, but that’s not what matters as much. What matters is rank, since M, GM, and top500 players are all saying that queue times are quite bad for Supports. Just take a look around reddit, the forums, or even content creators, there’s sure to be screenshots or video evidence of it.
Ironically I find him too gimmicky for my tastes. His mobility is insane and his shuriken combo is as interesting to me as the hog hook combo was.
The heroes I’m referring to are ones at the bottom rung of the meta like Reaper/Hog or typically low output damage heroes like Ball/Winton.
Yes I do. It’s objectively correct. I know better than you. I actually know how game design works. The fact that you think that a sum of variables describes game balance instead of percentages says it all to me that you know literally nothing about even the basic fundamentals of basic weapon or character balance…
Anti-nade should deny 50% of incoming healing instead of 100%. And then they can rework the immortality/cleansing abilities into something else. It’d be a good start.
1 shots, anti nade, are all necessary safe-guards that imo are 100% needed and healthy for the game as an in-game way for players to deal with unbalanced game states.
- Queue times. There are not enough Tank players to justify requiring 2 per team. This was already proven in OW1 with DPS queues in QUICKPLAY being nearly 10 minutes long even in the most populated regions, and it was like that already before content stopped. In less populated regions it was even worse. There is not a single Quickplay queue time in 5v5 anywhere near 10 minutes. All 3 of my queue times are 1-2 minutes most of the time.
- Two tanks forces Tank players to rely on a solid Co-tank. You could play perfectly, but if your co-Tank was an anchor or playing off meta you probably lost. That takes power away from Tank players. Who wants to have their good plays washed away by a co-Tanks bad plays? No one.
- Tank combos/synergy constantly caused uneven/unwinnable matches. Anyone who played OW1 knows this. If the enemy team had Rein/Zar and your team had Dva/Hog you lost that game 9/10 times (barring some massive skill gap) because having Tanks that didn’t synergize together put you at a massive disadvantage against a team that did.
- The previous point was entirely out of your control no matter what role you were playing. If your teammate didn’t want to (or couldn’t) play a synergy combo and execute it, you were pretty much guaranteed a loss to a team playing a synergy combo/executing it. This made many games feel unwinnable even if you played really well.
- Two tanks per team often times led to games where both Tank players would want to play the same hero, or the same “sub-role”. Once one player picked the other Tank players preferred hero or subrole they would be forced to play someone they didn’t want to play and/or weren’t comfortable with, all but guaranteeing them a bad time and probably a loss too. It was a race at hero select. Sucks to be someone that didn’t have an expensive & fast gaming rig, you always got second choice.
- Tank synergy forced the devs to nerf Tanks to only be good in their synergies and bad outside of them. The best example of this is Orisa, where she was nerfed so much that she was essentially never played outside of double shield. That was not fun for Orisa players. This would have continued to happen to all tanks as time went on.
- The previous point meant your viable Tank choices were cut down to 2-3 heroes at most as soon as your co-tank picked their hero. People like to pretend 6v6 had some crazy complexity and that there were “so many combinations” but that falls apart when you look at the reality of what synergies made the game into. Co-tank picked Rein? Okay, your viable synergy choices are now Zarya or Dva. Co-Tank picked Orisa? Okay, your viable synergy choices are now Hog or Sigma. Co-Tank picked Zarya? Okay, your viable synergy choices are now Rein or Winston. Wow. Such variety and choice, being whittled down to choosing between 2 heroes because of synergy.
- Tank synergy made the off meta tanks practically throw picks, further reducing variety. This piggybacks onto multiple previous points. If you look back at all the metas in OW1 you will see massive time gaps between Tanks being viable/meta, where in OW2 literally every Tank has been meta in under a year, and we’re at a point where they’re almost all viable at the same time. That never happened in OW1.
- Tank synergy made creating new tanks a nightmare because they weren’t able to be individually balanced. They had to be balanced based on how they interacted with the rest of the tank roster.
- No more double shield, which would have happened on more and more tank combos and new Tanks come out with barriers. No one likes shooting barriers for the majority of the match, especially not when theres a ton of ranged damage behind them shredded you before you can even get close.
Apparently not if you think 7v7 is easier to balance lol.
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And if supports are dumpstered, tanks and dps will have an amazing time getting 0 heals coz supports got flanked and killed because tanks and dps don’t peel. Well done on Suggesting something that will make the game even worse XD
Whatever you say. Enjoy being objectively and factually wrong. More players = less impact per player = easier to balance game. A single death among 7 players is not nearly as impactful as a single death among 5 players, therefore making the game easier to balance - balance changes are less polarizing to the overall flow of the game.
I think support damage should be untouched.
But their passive should be removed or nerfed more (4 seconds out of combat before activation).
And their raw healing output needs to be reduced.
Now tanks will cry bloody murder… and with good reason. That is why they need to simply add a healing multiplier for tank heroes. Done.
With these changes… things will actually die.
You too.
- Who wants less impact? Why would I want to have less say over the outcome of a match?
- More heroes per team/game = more variables to balance around = harder to balance
How do you balance Tanks who now have 7 heroes going against them? Do you make them extemely Tanky to be able to withstand that? How does that effect supports? Does that mean they need more healing because they’re healing more allies and tanks with bigger healthpools? And what about DPS? Do they need more damage to cut through multiple High HP tanks that have multiple high healing supports? Where does that leave the HP of DPS/Support? Do they need more health too now that DPS have to deal more damage to cut through the additional Tank HP/Defense and increased Support sustain? There is a cascade of issues that 7v7 would cause that you seem to have not thought of because you’re just thinking “more players = less individual impact” which somehow made you arrive at the conclusion of “easier to balance” but that makes no sense.
More variables = harder to balance
Because this means that one bad player can single-handedly ruin a match, while in 7v7, it’d be possible to carry them. One person shouldn’t be able to completely destroy a match. It’s like those school projects where one person doesn’t do the work and the whole group suffers for it (and it is also something that should be completely eradicated in schools).
You know, I know exactly how to balance a 7v7 game.
First of all, the game around OW1 was already pretty close to being really good for 7v7. As it was, healing and damage were both ridiculously strong in that game - especially heals. Adding an extra character would indirectly rightfully be a nerf to sustain, which is a good thing. Heals should also get a nerf due to the next big change.
As things are, though, damage will also need a nerf. Focus firing will be very brutal in this game, so reducing the ttk, while also reducing health regen will do nothing but good for the game.
Next, I’d give tanks their current passive cc resistance. That was the single best change 5v5 brought, and one of the few that actually made sense. I’d also rework Sigma so his barrier is replaced with some new, interesting ability. He is one of the the only three heroes that would need a partial rework. Rein/Orisa isn’t nearly as strong as Orisa/Sigma, so it should’t be too difficult for anti-shield comps to deal with them.
Lastly, I’d reduce the range of Snipers to be able to OHKO 250 hp heroes no further than Ashe range, and 200 HP heroes only like 5-10 meters after that. With how I’m rebalancing the game, I want to reduce the effectiveness of double shield, but I also don’t want to punish players for not running a ton of shields. So snipers will need to be closer to do their jobs. Burst damage as a whole may need reduced range as well, but that’s only if they turn out too strong after launch.
Lastly, I’d rework Mercy and Bap. All Bap needs is immo changed into a powerful ult, and Mercy needs res put back on her ult (maybe make it fast-charging). The goal is to reduce sustain caused by healing without making heroes die in 5 seconds, so abilities that easily outright prevent or reverse death with very little mechanical input should be on their ults and only their ults.
Blam. Done. Game fixed.
Each player having a meaningful impact, whether positive or negative, is not a reason to take power away from every player and make their individual impact less meaningful. Just because one of my DPS teammates isn’t playing well doesn’t mean we need to just make the team bigger so both his impact and my impact means less. That is a fools idea.
It also means your impact as an individual player (which is ultimately what matters) is so greatly diminished that it matters a whole lot less when you’re playing well. Why get good at a game if your impact means so little that it’s not enough to win games?
Awful idea.
Clearly you do not. You’re suggesting taking away individual impact from every player because a person playing poorly hurts the team. Newsflash, it’s supposed to. On top of that, you’re saying it would be “easier to balance” when I’ve already given reasons why it wouldn’t be which you’ve just breezed past. You would have to restructure everything entirely to even have a chance, and even then it would fail. All you’ve given are vague descriptions of what you’d do, “nerf heals, nerf damage, give a new ability, reduce range, rework mercy/bap, it’ll work out, trust me bro”
It might all sound good in your head, but that’s the only place it works. No thanks. I enjoy having a meaningful impact in the game, 7v7 would diminish that.
Good players should completely stomp any and all terrible competition. They should never be held back by terrible teammates. This is both true for life and games. I know it’s hard to comprehend for a society so brainwashed by team codependency, but teams should never hold somebody back. Ever. A perfect system would have bad players get completely left behind by better players every single match, but sadly this species is too hell-bent on useless team dependency to ever foster real skill or knowledge. But as things stand, people having so much impact makes one bad player easily drag down 5 people blatantly better than them for no reason other than ‘muh teamwork’. I’m just going to say it: Bad teammates do not have rights. They do not deserve to be carried. They do not deserve to drag anyone else down.
The only way to give every one carry potential while also lessening the teammates weighing you down is to give every role a way to get elims. Sustain also needs to be nerfed too, as well as hard counters. But that’s hard with a game like OW2 that’s based on classes. Team dependency will always be part of Overwatch.
Killing people isnt the only way to have carry potential.
CC and healing also have carry potential, so making the game all about elims just makes the game more like a standard FPS, and overwatch isnt a standard FPS
God I wish they did so the q rates go back to being 30 minutes for dps and they finally rralise how bad they are without supports constantly bailing them out.
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Which is boring. Its like mercy pocketing ashe. Sure it might work but is it really enjoyable?Shes a melee hero, she should have a purpose besides hoping enemy picks tracer amd attacks her ana so she can actually m1
Why would good players be going against “terrible competition”? More importantly, good players value drops more and more with each player added to the team, thanks 7v7 for making my value miniscule.
Meanwhile you suggest the game format be 7v7 which diminishes individual impact to the point that teams can hold people back. If a really good player has teammates that aren’t very good and they lose, that good player is being held back by the team. You’re contradicting yourself.
Sounds like you just don’t enjoy Brig design. She is very effective bad counter-intuitive to play because she is a melee hero that doesn’t want to play at melee range but constantly run away and trigger Inspire with Whipshot almost exclusively. She is hard to kill for any dive character and pretty easy to kill for brawl tanks so she needs to constantly run away from them. She has tools for that but yeah it’s not very fun hence why I don’t play Brig despite her being strong hero.
Brig was not designed like that. Otherwise she would have a mid range M1. Everything but the packs is designed around being in close range ideally.
Brig was nerfed out of being able to be a frontline hero. Just like Mercy was nerfed into a pocket bot for hitscans, Brig was nerfed into a hero unable to frontline together with her tank.
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