"It's just QP" should be punishable


#608

Lack of communication (I.E not being in teamchat) is not a reportable offense. Cooperation is way to open ended for it to be a report option, Griefing I agree with, going 5th or 6th DPS is not griefing, as then every single person on that team is susceptible to a report should no one switch.

If you are trying to say you think it SHOULD be this way, then please clarify in your post.


#609

Gonna need to read the thread to answer that one, friend. Which is daunting at this point, I admit. So to go fetch a quote for you:

It’s a class based team game, where different team mates fill different roles. To make a comparison, imagine if people played… american football, and when the team gets out there, they have all the linemen, and receivers, and need a quarterback. The last dude walks out, and says “nah, I’m going receiver too”.

You now have a 0% chance to do anything on offense. That is ruining the game for all of your team mates.

It’s 100% griefing, and people have mentioned receiving notifications that the griefers they report for this behavior get punished. Myself included.

You’re welcome to your opinion though. Have a nice day :slight_smile:


#610

And you’re welcome to yours, but that does not mean you or even me are correct. Only thing we can do is hope for a response from Blizzard themselves to sort this out.

Also, just because you recieve a notification that action was taken doesn’t mean it was justified (whihc is why I hate that they added that in), you know false bannings occur right? It happened to Fuey500, one of the nicest streamers I’ve ever seen, who was banned simply because he plays Torbjorn in competitive. But hey the guys that reported him probably recieved notifications that their reports were followed upon so he must have deserved it right?

Also, let’s be honest, 90% of the tanks are just fat DPS at this point (at least half). Even if they pick say Reinhardt, there’s no gaurntee that they stay behind the shield or actually get value out of that tank. In fact what if they feed more because they are god awful at tank? Or fail to heal because they suck at healer? Then that’s just poor play, which isn’t reportable.

EDIT: I just realized that the quote you gave is literally saying that you have to play tank or healer if you load in last. Way to punish people with slow internet man, real fair system you got there.


#611

Of course man, who disagrees with that? If you’re not a great healer, but the team needs a healer, so you don’t do well, then darn! You lose that game, but you probably got better at healing. Eventually, you won’t be as bad a healer.

That’s how this game works. There is a reason you can swap mid match, and it’s because you’re expected to be shuffling team comp around. This isn’t DOTA 2 where you pick 1 line up and are stuck with it.

Also, I dunno man…

What is a ‘false’ banning? Obviously if they saw your report, and decided you needed to be banned, then you did something the moderators / community managers / whoever, disagreed with.

YOU might not agree with it, -I- might not agree with it, but we’re not the ones that matter at the end. I don’t agree with every rule that’s in place, but griefing being punishable is one that I do agree with.

^Also been discussed ad nauseum in this thread. I can’t unwrap 557 posts for you. If you’re really invested, go back and read.

Bottom line though, is that it’s a tremendously feeble argument that holds no real weight.


#612

Don’t the other 10 players then have the opportunity to step up and be the QB since the one guy doesn’t want to? Also, the QB is a position defined by RULE. Can you please show me the rule in Overwatch dictating a role as required in order to play the game?

Aren’t all 11 ruining the game for each other by no one choosing to be the QB?

No it isn’t. You should brush up on what it means to be a griefer. Here, I’ll help:
A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways.

So, I can start out as healer and swap within the first few moments to another role and not be the subject of your harassment? Who is then obligated to fulfill the role that I just left void or face your harassment?

Bans in which the moderators/community managers/whoever overturned the ban.

Please see above definition of “griefer”, as you are not using it in context here.

It’s a temendously feeble argment that holds no real weight to base hero (role) selection on when you loaded in. As, with the QB example, the other 5 players have the opportunity to step up and fill that role.

This is exactly what this guy thinks.

That’s his view from a different thread similarly titled The “it’s just QP” trolls

It’s just nice to know that I can insta-lock whomever I want thanks to having the money to pump into a system and internet that is a top 5% PC and guarantee that I’m not subject to his harassment for my pick. I mean, really? That’s so equitable, isn’t it?

When you care so much about a non-competitive (by name) game mode that you openly harasses your fellow gamers, causing them undue burden for playing a game, then you are the problem. It’s toxicity 101, and literally no one likes it. Especially when you could just try and win the game, and if you get steam rolled, well golly gee darn it, you just lost a whole 5 minutes of your life and you can move on and likely never see the person again…

I report EVERY person who harasses a player over their pick. I, too, get notifications that actions have been taken. I get great satisfaction knowing that toxic people receive chat bans and are muted from spreading their toxicity among my fellow gamers.


#613

You don’t seem to understand what is and is not reportable, here is a quote from Scott Mercer if you don’t want to believe me.

If you WANT it to BE reportable, then say so. But as of right now, it is 100% NOT a reportable option. If you do report people that go 4-5 DPS, then I recommend you stop, as that is abuse of the report system.


#614

who actually goes out of their time to throw a qp game… i might mess around a qp match with my friends and spawncamp but its not a competitive gamemode, its a game mode to do whatever you want because winning or losing doesnt matter at all. if someone tells you in team chat dps arent getting enough picks i say back I want to get away from that competitive style for a little bit dont try to bring it over here


#615

Thanks a ton for posting that. Perfect quote for this thread.

What do we learn from it?

Things that are not reportable as, not “griefing”, but “gameplay sabotage”:

Important to note, on those last two points, we are addressing HERO choice (ie. Mercy vs Ana), NOT role choice (ie. DPS vs Support).

Things that you CAN report a player for “Game Sabotage” for:

I broke those last two up into separate points, because they’re different, and their distinction is important.

Harassing a player, in my mind, is something like:

  • Mei walling your team inside spawn
  • spamming voice lines while intentionally trying to block Widow’s vision
  • repeatedly insults someone in chat (team or match)

Disrupting the game is something completely different though:

  • Playing Death Match style in Objective based game modes (ie completely ignoring the objective the entire match)
  • Suiciding over and over (putting your team in a 5v6 doesn’t harass any singular player, but basically makes the match unwinnable for your team)
  • Role griefing: ie The apparently contested “picking a 6th dps is fine” abuse. (This is essentially the same as the above point: You’re not inhibiting any one player on your team, but you’re putting your team into a very very difficult position, and make a win extremely unlikely).

That quote does a good job of articulating what people have been taking issue with this whole thread: “You can’t report someone for just having a bad game, or for picking a HERO you don’t like, but you can report someone for ignoring the game mode, ignoring the team, and tanking the experience for the 11 other players in the match”

Lets wrap this up with a question every “6th dps is fine” poster seems to ignore:

If you want to play Hanzo no matter what, forget the team, forget the objective, forget everything else going on, you want sick scatter kills: Why not play arcade Death Match modes that were made with that gameplay specifically in mind, rather than objective based game modes where 5 other people are counting on you to fill a role to form a cohesive team?


#616

They sort of go hand in hand don’t they? If you are reporting them off not picking a tank, aren’t still reporting them based on the hero they chose?

I’ll agree to this. Nothing to add here.

That’s a pretty big grey area, what about on KOTH and you already capped the point? Do you still have to stay on point?

Or rather do you mean ignoring it to spawn camp an enemy? Because that’s rather situational, and I’m still iffy on this.

On one hand I agree, that if they completely ignore the objective (and by that I mean staying in the enemy spawn to try to spawn kill someone WITHOUT coming back to the point to help out).

On the other hand, there are those times where you get stuck behind enemy lines, and you’re team gets a pick, but you stay to ensure that the player cannot come back to save the fight.

I’m really 50/50 on this one, but if I had to make it reportable, I hope it wouldn’t result in a really long ban, maybe for a couple hours increasing every time you get banned, just so that people who do this unintentionally know not to do it again without losing their account for a couple days.

Agreed, nothing to add.

Not sure on this point either, because it’s very situational. What if the person who picked 6th DPS ends up doing better than the person who picked DPS first? Does the 6th picker still get reported? Do you report at the beginning or the end of the game?

Alright, I’ll put myself into the situation. I like to play Hanzo in QP because I can already play Tank and Healers to my current competitive level, but DPS is a role I am severely lacking in, and am finding myself having to fill more and more. I like Hanzo’s design and kit so I thought he would be a really fun hero to learn how to play. But if I can’t load in faster than 2/3rds of my team, I can’t learn to play Hanzo because it would be reportable. It’s why I have so much time on Roadhog in QP because I filled so many times for tank, it didn’t matter that I was essentially just another DPS or that I was getting shot a lot, people didn’t complain so long as I was a tank.

What do you mean by “Forget the team”? That’s pretty subjective, could you maybe give me an example (other than not picking tank/healer).

Not playing the objective I already addressed. And Forget everything if you mean going AFKk then yes that’s reportable.

Well because some people want that actually game experience where people try to defend the objective instead of them selves. Could be a reason.

But I’ll agree that if you ONLY go for kills (I.E staying in enemy spawn trying to camp) that it is reportable in “Gameplay Sabotage” BUT only if the it is a light punishment.

But going in alone and dying, they might just be bad, and you can scream at your computer and call them an idiot, but reporting when they might just be bad is taking it to the next level that doesn’t seem right to me. Unless they are just not shooting at them and spamming “hi”, or seem extremely tilted and appear to be throwing, then I would advise against reporting.


#617

I actually agree with most of what you wrote, which was pretty well put. So thanks for that :slight_smile:

To address that quote: QP can be just for giggles, if everyone is fine with it. You can get a 6 man pre-made and and go all dps all day and that’s 100% because everyone is cool with it. Again, this thread has gotten wild so reading the whole thing start to finish is way too much to ask, but the general consensus was:

"You signing up for an objective based game mode with the knowledge that your team could ask you to play towards that objective. If everyone is cool just playing 6 dps for giggles, that’s fine. That would be fine in comp if no one truly minded losing SR and just wanted to have a troll-y game for fun. But IF they’re asking you to play towards the objective, you’re agreeing that you’ll do that.

If you don’t want to work with your team (aka, take into account their opinions, work with them to make a team comp, try and pick heroes that work well together for a given map, whatever else) then there are game modes where you’re not making that implicit agreement: Like death match modes. These modes exist because you don’t want the obligation of being a part of a team and having team mates rely on you"

The general rule of thumb I’ve used is:

  • Pick what you want
  • If people ask to play the game mode for the objective, and would like a balanced team comp, re-evaluate my pick
  • If there were too many of my role for the comp to realistically work, and I picked after the other people in my role, I’ll swap. After all, they picked a tank/healer/dps whent here was still a need for one, I didn’t.
  • If no one communicates a desire for comp changes, just stay where I am.

The main problem you get, realistically, is that these same people that are picking 4th/5th/6th dps picks are almost always the same ones giving the toxic “LOL cry about it, it’s just QP MAN” responses. Overwhelmingly, non-toxic players will agree to shuffle comp around to try and not be rude to their team mates.


#618

They should just make some silly hub world for players who just want to prance around and emote. But the other side of the coin is that those screaming for bans are more often than not concentrating so hard on trying out their own thing whether it be a hero or an ability/strat of that hero that they forget that’s what other people might be doing too.

The worst people in QP are not the mess around types or practice types, but the ranked tryhards who go into QP not to de tilt from their games but rather to come in like a drill sergeant and demand hero picks so THEY can practice some team comp. That’s what scrims are for.


#619
  1. No, stating that we need a rule Y while there is rule X in place does not imply anyone abusing any rule.
  2. You said nothing that contradicts the fact that your response “we do have rules that cover X” to “we need rules to cover Y” makes no sense and lies in the realm of petty.

Insults are subjective term. Do you think insulting should not be punished just because it’s subjective?
When you can perceive something subjectively it doesn’t mean it can’t be wrong or shouldn’t be punished.

Alright, so since we both didn’t counter our examples but just provided a “maybe not”, can we then conclude that there are both, situations X where your hero A is a low mechanical skill hero and your hero B requires mechanical skill that you don’t have AND there are situations Y where your hero C requires not as much mechanical skill for you to be more viable than hero A in the current situation? Agreed?

So? Nobody talked about being 100% certain.
If a certain hero has been utterly futile for half the match against a certain teamcomp there’s little to support the view that this will suddenly change in the second half (again, not saying that it’s impossible, but if you keep doing exactly what is not working, you’re jeopardizing the match due to hubris).

You do realize that the “multiple counters per hero” rule doesn’t exclusively apply to the enemy heros but as well to the very hero you are playing?

Say I want to play widow at all costs. The enemy team run a Tracer who wrecks me 24/7. I might say: “But we run a Brigitte who counters Tracer, so it’s ok.” I might even say: “Hey, we have a McCree, so that’s already 2 counters for my counter. Yay, it so doesn’t matter what I play, my team does all the countering for me.”
But then I’m totally oblivious to the other side of the medal. I neglect that they run a Reinhardt blocking my shots, I neglect that their DVa is in my face all match. I neglect that their Genji harasses me and my poor healer teammate. I neglect that their Mercy has been resurrecting 3 of the 4 people I eliminated the last 4 minutes.
Considering also this side of the medal, I would be the most inconsiderate, inane person in the world to say: “well, because each hero has multiple counters, it doesn’t matter what I pick against their team”.
You can’t deny that there aren’t certain teamcomps who have the upper hand against other teamcomps, whether due to synergies within the team or due to constellations that maximize one team’s ability to counter the others while keeping the other team’s ability to re-counter at a minimum. And if you want to deny that (or assert that it’s just 1% of the cases), it’s gonna need an actual argument behind the statement.

You’re missing the point and get lost in petty stuff again. My statement was not about the smugness but about the unwillingness to switch. Try again:
But when I notice that I switched for the 3rd time in the match and you still fail to bring anything to the table while not wanting to even try another hero, it becomes apparent that the situation requires more than 5 people working around one pighead, i.e. a full team working together. This is regardless of whether your currently played hero is your favorite #1 or your favorite #4 hero.

Alright, one more time for you:

I win a game, I perceive someone cheating => report.
I win a game, I perceive nobody cheating => no report.
I lose a game, I perceive someone cheating => report.
I lose a game, I perceive nobody cheating => no report.

I win a game, I perceive someone harassing in chat => report.
I win a game, I perceive nobody harassing in chat => no report.
I lose a game, I perceive someone harassing in chat => report.
I lose a game, I perceive nobody harassing in chat => no report.

I win a game, I perceive someone griefing by handicapping my team => report.
I win a game, I perceive nobody griefing by handicapping my team => no report.
I lose a game, I perceive someone griefing by handicapping my team => report.
I lose a game, I perceive nobody griefing by handicapping my team => no report.

This is about as independent from winning and losing as it can get.
Got it now?

Already told you it was a concious decision of mine.
Don’t know why you keep denying that or what about it you didn’t understand.

Hold on…they can’t be moot, because in order to define the term “handicap”, we need something more than just “it’s SOMETHING that’s subjective. end of definition.” We actually need to define that “SOMETHING”. The subjectivity/perception part is already covered in statement 3, so what remains is the question if you agree to statements 1 and 2. And if not, for what reasons.

Alright, alright. So this SEEMS like you agree to statement 3?
Just asking because you didn’t clearly state so, to avoid a misunderstanding.

So if someone masks/hides their throwing in a way so you don’t notice it as blatant, you wouldn’t consider it a deliberate action and thus you wouldn’t report them?

Oh boy…everything that is directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining is ad hominem, no matter what you do first or second. It doesn’t belong here and is out of place. Calling it “jab” doesn’t make it any more appropriate and doesn’t exactly reinforces your credibility here.

People who think they are funny…it’s always a bit sad to watch.

Geez…please mind the context. This is about the game rules, not about the forum rules.
Abiding by game rules just because they have been defined by the developers of the game has no value in a discussion that is about the sanity of these very rules.

So you ask me a question that refers to trying.
And when I tell you we need to define what “trying” in this matter means, first (which seems pretty obvious to me), you reply by repeating your question.
When I ask you what you didn’t understand about the fact that we need to define “trying” first, you don’t answer why on earth you need an answer before we even defined “trying” but escape into a “but you’re twisting it all”-excuse?
I mean, come on guy…
I’m happy to provide you with numerous examples to your “trying”-relevant question as soon as we have defined “trying”. You wanting an answer without that definition and not even explaining why and how that makes sense, flies in the face of reason.


#620

Even QP is a team vs team mode, not a “1 vs 11 try around with your weapon” fight mode.


#621

There is a solution, and that is the developers coming clean, stating what QP is about and start punishing people that don’t work together as a team, as they’re effectively ruining the game for others.

But given the state of competitive as well, I don’t think there is enough care at Blizzard left for QP.


#622

Play competitive if you want serious Overwatch. Play any other mode if you want crazy Overwatch.

If you want QP to be unranked competitive, you’ll have to press for a mode QPers will like. I know I’d like at least 8v8, majority presence capture rules, and much shorter respawn times. An actual unranked competitive mode wouldn’t solve anything until there is something more enticing for people that just want to “DM it.” Elimination isn’t it either - it’s Counter-Strike: Overwatch. I don’t want to wait for the round to end to get back into the fight.

P.S. 17 days and I’m just now getting a prompt about this reply? Da f**?

There’s no stopping how people treat a mode. Blizzard can only encourage player behavior, but they can not force player behavior.


#623

They can punish people who don’t respect the teambased nature of the mode.
Sure, this is technically not forcing anyone to stop doing it or obliterating that behavior altogether, but it will certainly make it less likely.


#624

Punish MILLIONS of players?

They might as well just pull the plug.

They tackle blatant sabotage by way of feeding ultimate charge, team disruptive behavior like Mei’s ice wall in her own spawn, hiding in a corner and avoiding the objective and the enemy entirely, etc.

What they won’t tackle is someone playing Torbjorn or Symmetra because someone else thinks that’s a stupid hero choice, and I’d say that’s pretty much 99.7% the kind of complaint Blizzard receives regarding “player throwing/trolling” - petty, selfish complaints of people not happy with how another player is playing the game, even though that person is playing the game.

The percentile is an exaggeration. The reality is that they’re not going to ban Torb one tricks from QP. It ain’t happening.


#625

This is not about someone playing a hero you don’t like. This is about people who can’t make their hero choice work and ignore the fact that they still have a responsibility in the team they fail to fulfill.


#626

It’s just QP. Get used to it being the free-play mode or go to competitive where the stakes are high enough to get people to take it a bit more seriously. You choose to go into QP. So it’s your problem if you can’t take what happens there.


#627

This is the same old mantra people keep repeating.
It doesn’t provide any reason to why ignoring teamplay in QP shouldn’t be punished. It just tries to free every player from their responsibility to respect this gamemode, just because there is another mode where you accept that teamplay is a necessity.
“Go somewhere else or it is your problem that other people can’t behave” - was never a good argument.