100% agree, OP. Kiriko does need a little something more. Maybe something like being able to tp to enemies too, like she does in her trailer. It’d be very cool if I could tp to an unsuspecting Sombra for once and be all like, “nothin personnel kid”, then I snap her neck and tp out to safety.
2 Likes
I suggested way back in the day for her to make custom TP points by holding down melee to “charge” a kunai that sticks in the wall or an enemy. That she can use TP to.
Giving her an ounce of control over how she moves. While not adding buttons.
I dont find it inconsistent and the average Kiriko can put out good amounts of damage and healing. Zen is THE dps support of the category and Lucio has much harder aim with his projectiles being easy to avoid.
Lol its 1 second of immortality that can nulify plenty of ultimates & nade. Its also on CD and not an ultimate. Forcing out abilities is part of the game.
Yet again, Kiriko can output alot of healing at least in my games (High Masters).
- Mercy requires people to be close by to escape
- Baptiste only has jump
- Brig has no escape
- Illari has no escape
- Zen has no escape
- Lucio must wallride away
- Lifeweaver has no escape
The only heroes that have a good escape are Junot/Moira.
Yet she has the ability to do it. Not everything in her kit needs to be groundbreaking OP. Wall climb allows her to escape flankers or anyone diving, she can be pro-active about it too. At the same time she can go higher ground during a fight.
why is this in reply to me lol
Lucio’s tend to be able to close space rather easily, they have full control in how they can engage.
https://youtu.be/iz1hSvIEeTA?si=VOOZJ2xIvRK134wA
https://youtu.be/kwlCmF4Dc-w?si=oxMIjiUoWFHj3hpx
https://youtu.be/_AIe2dRp7Ag?si=XSFn7SJj08gqtTRI
here is a few examples of such. Dude can get a wild amount of kills.
Not exactly GA is 30 meters distance wise, then you have the second bit of mobility to sling shot or super jump off of them to get were ever she likes. And back up with being able to do that with souls, while can also just fly in ult with increase GA range. And on like a 1 to 1.5 second cooldown.
And two sustain cooldowns. That can be used solo or with his team. With jump being a better wall climb that can be used in open space.
Brigs’s bash takes her quite the distance also like you shouldn’t need to be escaping as brig. You can duel down most hero’s or be playing body gaurd to someone else. While using barrier to eat damage for the both of you.
Illari has a massive AOE knock back that lets move to a lot of highground. On top of her ult letting her fly, and having considerably decent self sustain that lets her shoot a lot more then kiriko does before needing to swap to heal. Also has a hit scan weapon that doesn’t miss 70% of the time.
Doesn’t need to in most cases, and his ult does exists if just needs to live through a pulse or some other solo/team ult.
lucio can in fact not only wall ride/climb, but wall dash and combo layers of speed boost. Like you only need to get around a corner. Or into a bit of highground.
you joking right? half his kit is mobility lol. He can just summon a barrier platform at that and can eat most of the damage for him.
if her team is spot to allow her to do so, not dead, or all grouped up around a point.
She has mercy 1.0 issue where you can “only” move to a teammate. Limiting where she can go dramatically. And also doesn’t have save safe of souls.
If their is a spot to wall climb to. As that is highly map/location dependent. And your moving at a fix speed in a straight line.
In most places you will go and down and that’s basically it. Like genji/hanzo need their double jump/dash/leap to actually get into most chunks of the map. Wall climb has always been an accessory to another major mobility tool.
And bapt’s jump is a better version of this.
Actually yes, i like this idea. Change her kitsune fox ult, for kitsune bike. The effect stays the same, plus she thrusts forward.
We get to see her on her bike (finally), and op gets another mobility ability.
1 Like
You’re 100% convinced that she needs an extra ability and thats fine but your comments are making Kiriko seem very weak when shes not. Every single aspect of her kit is lacking in your eyes so I cant take this conversation seriously.
Key word is “inconsistent”
Less so weak.
The kit has "strong tools’ that “can” make an impact. But are just not really consistent or can forced out or chased down when used.
It’s like ana didn’t have sleep sort of a deal, were her make or break moments come down to if she isn’t forced to self nade or doesn’t have it get eaten in the proccess.
Anti-heal and the buff are strong, just that she also needs that second tool to make other plays inbetween like shutting down charge / ults / flankers.
kiriko lacks a tool to play around in between pop-off moments.
which is reflected by her winrate, which for as strong as she “can be” is pretty dirt. Because she is just inconsistent in the mid game.
I would hardly call 0.225 projectiles small. Considering she’s a support her damage capabilites are pretty respectable.
The only reason she may feel incomplete at times is that Suzu is on a long cooldown, meaning you have less available to you (lower ability uptime). This is the cost of the ability being just that strong.
https://youtu.be/KlYP2R94q7o?si=a6ol4nEKDu5h-ry1
https://youtu.be/XCyHMHh-nkc?si=0s7maDBqD9HWL5lA
https://youtu.be/DRTTBexTA1c?si=i6R0klhPcOT2doS5
Tell that to these top 500 players that can barrelly hit anything with it LOL.
It’s a quick fix tool that also cleanse, or can faze through a major cooldown ult.
It’s not exactly something the support line is hurting for be it does so in a unique way to other other tools.
The issue being that their isn’t anything else in the kit to support the team or play around with once it’s gone.
heroes with big single cooldowns like be it nade / pull / lamp / speed ring. Have a secondary cooldown like sleep, pedal, lock on healing/damage missiles or AOE healing. to use in between those plays.
And regardless of how many things it can do, you only have 1 per fight in most cases and that it’s your only tool to really can consistently play around the enemy. Which if it is forced out or needs to be used to eat like a nade when the enemy has ults.
Welp… to bad you can’t do anything about it.
Again, Suzu is a powerful ability. Kiri has the same amount of abilities other supports do. The only way you can give it a shorter cooldown is to somehow nerf it to a reasonable enough degree that it can warrant being on a shorter cooldown, thus granting higher ability uptime.
Only ways I can think of to do this is:
- Exchange immortality for damage reduction.
- remove intangibility (no immunity to CC)
- Single target use only.
- reducing its effect duration to near null.
No. 4 is more in line with what they’ve tried doing, and has so far been pretty ineffective.
Seems like you want her to be able to do everything, and not be unable to do anything.
She has reasons to do what she does, yes? Asking for more on a character who predominantly exists to get rid of debuff effects and make other peoples’ lives easier seems kinda odd.
Now you seem to be in a misconception about her kit.
The devs seem to like this idea that each character has a “bank” of power, that it’s a singular pool of numbers that they then allocate as a power budget.
Symmetra is allowed to be as bad as she is because she has Team TP. Team TP doesn’t do anything a grand majority of the time. In fact, it relatively sucks.
Taking this philosophy to Kiriko, ignore your “use cases” and your whatever. Objectively, objectively, Kiriko has these abilities:
Wall climb
Kunai
Suzu
Healing Orisa
Swift Step
These abilities do these things;
Kunai - pretty decent damage, hella good crits. Able to two dink 225 (I think) HP characters, and is able to naturally weave them in between her second ability. Is small because of its big crit ability. I think.
Healing Ofuda - a small burst (I know it’s not burst heals, there’s just no other way to phrase this) of paper that flies from her hand and heals her target. Heat seeking,.albeit with a travel time. Has a pause between refilling the Ofuda to throw a few dinkers out.
Swift Step:
A teleport to a teammate. You claim that it has less uses than GA, but that doesn’t matter if you’re thinking like the devs. What matters is what it does on paper. It instantly teleports Kiriko to her teammates, ignoring obstacles like walls or enemies, so that she may then join the fight. I dunno if it also cleanses Kiriko herself (I don’t play much Kiriko) but otherwise that’s what it does.
Suzu:
A bell that when thrown, has a small AOE that:
Heals those in the AOE
Cleanses all negative effects (and grants bonus heal when cleansing)
Grants I frames.
Now, I don’t have an issue with her kit. I like her kit the way it is. But this is likely why Blizzard would never end up buffing her with a new ability - she’s already exhausted her power budget. Even if the I frames are imo the most skilled application of immortality in the game, the devs don’t care about that. They care about what it does, not what it may or may not do.
2 Likes
pfft mean while juno is the true shimada over here, with a double jump, dash, float, hybrid damage tool team scale cooldown, hit scan gun that also heals, and utility that stays in play for a long time giving something like rien, mei, bastion, or orisa near perma speed while fighting on point to push into who ever.
Like ya a power shift does need to happen, but like suzu isn’t as universally power as think. Because it only works in 1 interaction a fight. Is up for less then seconds, and has quite a few restrictions and caveats in how it works like wind-up time and it being projectile that can be deflected/blocked/eaten.
(Ya if a kiriko TP’s you can just dive her and hold DM so she can’t do anything but Quick melee lol)
And because it’s kiri’s only like quick heal / save the team tool from x tool. It’s kind of easy to just force it out. Then do the big kill combo / ult right after or so the former to bait for the latter.
like throw nade, pop suzu, then nano the genji/tank/lucio for an easy win. (yes their is a joke their)
Lol no, I just want their to be some sort of tempo tool, or for them to define a more specific playstyle like flanking with propper tools to actually do that.
I mean she is still strong in her niche as like a first point defense hero. But ya no I would trade TP team use in a heart beat.
You just assume their wouldn’t be power shift in the process, or that isn’t already issues in her kit. Or a lose of power over time do to lossing the knock back and shatter/pin and other knockdown interactions.
That have been power shifted into a heal boost when cleansing and more damage into her body shots.
Or just maybe her power budget is just off, and the devs have more wiggle room then they think.
Meanwhile genji/juno having like 10+ tools in their kit and no one bats an eye.
Like read the reply above to the other quote.
Only if Kiriko spawns a spirit bike and rides on it with the kitsune.
Amd the kitsune must also have a little helmet on.
And maybe have a few biker tattoos.
But they have to be cute.
1 Like
while this would be absolutely LOL worthy, think big kiriko tping to widow killing her , her pocket and entire team and then walking out.
this would probably be lol to most heroes especially supports.
Though beware of mercy mains, they will jump of cliff as you vanish to take you out and ga out.
According to just you?
As I’ve stated above.
Because it is a powerful ability that can entirely deny abilities and even full ultimates.
If it didn’t have these conditions then it would be an absolute free value ability. I’ve never seen a single Kiri complain about their Suzu being eaten, much less deflected or blocked.
Use TP better.
Acceptable, if Rush was removed and replaced with Suzu.
Kiri is a Support, not a DPS.
You already have these tools at your disposal in wall-climb, high damage, and an instant bail ability. Your team may suffer for this though, because Support :3
I could imagine the fox sitting in the frontal carriage box with helmet on.
I also could imagine the fox having a tatoo of it and Kiri riding a bike.
2 Likes
So….is anyone going to respond to OP’s video evidence, or is that going to be a no?
If you consider diamond and above high rank, then 10 percent of MILLIONS according to people arguing against OP can consistently hit her shots, which is why people argue against raising her power in the first place. Most of us (that’s millions mind you) can’t do that consistently, which means she’s garbage.
The videos the OP has posted show that even top 500, the best of the best, can’t do it consistently either.
Sounds like bad design to me.
You did not read my post, or you did and do not care. So I’ll show you the same respect. Good day, good bye, screw this noise.
I spend as much time being a ninja assassin on Kiriko as I do healing, so I don’t have time for another ability.