This is like 2 games out of 20. I’ve watched her stream and she’s constantly flamed and asked to switch to another healer.
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just go to 12 minutes, that’s when the fight starts.
31:45 Mercy valkyrie impact even with lucio amp up is pretty pathetic.
I’ve seen ana’s with nade keep teams up better than mercy can with valk in this very video. It’s honestly just awful ultimate, still.
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Sorry about the delay. I was silenced for talking about Sombra’s musical practices.
That argument can be used to justify anything remotely artistic. Someone could say Justin Bieber is better than Beethoven, it’s subjective, right?
Just because it’s subjective doesn’t mean there aren’t ways to measure, codify and balance it. Movies are subjective, we still teach cinema and award the best movies.
Yes it is subjective. That doesn’t mean there isn’t an argument to be made about how Beethoven is better than Justin Bieber.
I don’t care to argue Mercy’s balance. I think she’s balanced enough. Could ever so slightly use a pick me up, but fine.
Balance has nothing to do with how impactful, engaging and good she feels to play against and with. The most boring character would be an overpowered win button - like I hear moth valk was, and the hardest ones to work with can be the very much engaging. It has nothing to do with it.
If anything, I think she needs to be made overall weaker. She needs to be less consistent and have wider room for error.
If you can make an argument about how Genji is poorly thought out and how the intended purpose of his design isn’t quite right, I’ll gladly listen to it.
“Mercy is unfun, therefore change just to fit my taste” is not what is being said, at least not by me.
We shouldn’t ignore issues because the game is great.
Think ranked is broken and toxicity is a problem? Or
maybe that hero X was bad for the game? Well, If you can’t have fun in a game with 29 heroes and multiple gamemodes, I’m genuinely wonder if Blizzard can do anything to make it fun for that person.
How does that work for a response? It doesn’t.
Every single decision ever made about this game can be said to be subjective, right down to the old Tracer’s bums. That’s a non-argument.
Mercy has issues with her design, much like the old Tracer artwork, it does come down to subjective, that doesn’t mean it can’t fail or succeed, be improved or deteriorated.
To put it shortly as I can, Mercy’s design lacks room for player expression. She is much less interactive and engaging than any other in the roster, her skill gap isn’t wide enough and therefore the good players don’t feel rewarded, or more precisely, they feel the same as the bad players, which as far as I’m concerned is a big red flag for game design that isn’t a mobile pass time.
“She’s the tutorial healer” - Yes, I’ve heard that. So what? Does that mean she needs to have limited room for player expression? Doubtfully. Moira is easy to pick up. Soldier is easy to pick up - in fact he’s the tutorial hero. Reinhardt is easy to pick up. The point is: A hero being easy to pick up doesn’t mean it needs to be… Whatever Mercy is. Overwatch is already great at being both a pro, competitive and casual game, no hero needs to have such low skill ceiling because of that.
Mercy’s kit can be made better - for everyone, even those who enjoy her currently - without harming that purpose as newcomer character at all.
In fact, enhancing Mercy is probably good idea from that perspective as well. Wouldn’t want those newcomers feeling as if their actions are unrewarding, as Mercy often is described to feel. The tutorial character should be the opposite of not impactful, not fun and not engaging. I should think the newcomers ought to be welcomed with better than that.
Entirely true.
There is still the arguement for the quality of their work.
I have a friend who’s a DJ/Producer, the tracks are nice and I enjoy them. But if you’re going to compare them to actual world class DJs, you immediatly notice the difference in quality.
Same goes for Mercy, people feel she lacks, can’t keep up with others. But the stats we have available, altough not 100% accurate due to private profiles, show she’s in a good spot and can actually keep up.
Unfortunatly there are plenty of people who want Mercy reworked/reverted because they think Mercy1.0 was more fun.
Let me explain further, because the issues you explain are issues that can actually put somebody of a game and give bad experiences.
If people come with the argument that they can’t enjoy the game because they find Mercy unfun. I genuinly wonder, with a rather large hero roster, if there is no other hero out of the 28 that are left are fun for you. And if that’s the case, I genuinly wonder if people bought the right kind of game.
The stat I got showed upwards of 60% of 2681 players found her unfun at the state she was at the time, which isn’t very different than current.
You seem to still think I’m arguing for Mercy buffs. I am not. Could make her the moth meta again, still poo design.
I have not seen that argument been made. Mercy being unfun doesn’t mean the game isn’t. Mercy being unfun doesn’t mean everything about her isn’t. Mercy’s gameplay is lacking in its design, that’s what is being said.
Actually scratch that. That argument was the argument for rework, I believe.
There’s plenty. I’m actually a Reinhardt main who likes Mercy very much overall. Her gameplay is poo and could be fixed without a full rework, revert or buff. Her other aspects are great.
I also argue for Symmetra, Sombra, Reaper and Brigitte changes, by the way.
Again, “Mercy is unfun, therefore change just to fit my taste” is not what is being said, at least not by me.
I also found Dva to be a pandering and annoying character with poor voice acting on top of it. I don’t play Dva at all because of that. Her gameplay design is perfectly fine.
That’s an unvalid survey, it was held under an environment where a lot of people complain about the subject. Obviously the results will be negative.
Nope I’m not, just showing you that there is a difference between feelings and the actuall arguement with facts.
Just plow trough a general Mercy thread and there will be players saying that exact thing: “I can’t enjoy the game because Mercy got changed” or something along those lines.
Again, I’m not saying that you said that. There are plenty of people who do unfortunatly…
Games should be balanced and there are plenty of heroes who could actually use some work because they either perform bad or are actually barely picked.
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A lot of people also responded with the intend of bashing Mercy, as we have seen happen many times in any Mercy related thread. Can’t account for one without the other. As valid as valid goes.
You’re failing to do so when you point out stats irrelevant to the discussion.
There are no stats that I or you can raise on the subject of her design. There are however arguments and general design rules I have used to argue how poorly thought out Mercy design is.
Don’t enjoy playing Mercy =/= Enjoy the game because Mercy.
The overpowered Mercy moth looks just as bad as her current state, the res reset was nice, players could pop valk to get make a play, but hardly something that drastically changed her issues.
Why are we arguing then?
Lots of heroes could use some looking into. Symmetra in my opinion should be atop of the list, Reaper too, followed by Mercy.
The advantage of Mercy is that she doesn’t require full rework nor drastic changes meta-wise. Mercy is a good idea poorly executed, all she needs is polish. Adjust her on fire rate, tweak Valk towards target choice rather them hold mouse anywhere for equal impact, skew her ult gain towards damage boost… These are cheap to make and don’t really diminish anything for those who find her currently good, but they can make her drastically better for those who don’t.
Reinhardt I believe should be the gold standard in design for this game. Wide skill gap, easy to pick up. He puts Mercy to shame in that particular regard.
Because the survey is held in a bad environment. If you want to have a survey on a hero, it needs to be done under the general population.
Just like if you ask people if the world should go full vegan for exmaple. You’re not going to ask a hardcore vegan party, you just go in the streets and ask people there.
Well if Mercy’s overall design would have been the issue, the threads would have started way sooner. But the complains came after the rework and how they handled it after that.
Mercy’s base kit hasn’t changed, she even got an extra ability. So arguing that her base kit/design is worse then before is kinda weird seeing how she can do more than before.
As I said:
Unfortunatly there are plenty who do say that they can’t enjoy the game because of the Mercy changes.
Genuinly no idea 
The enemy Ana nano’d their Lucio.
What am I suppose to be looking at here?
Hello friend ![:slight_smile:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
I hope you prepared for this.
No. What I mentioned applies only to the 1:1-5 mechanic and nothing else. This should be obvious and I find it demotivating that you don’t realize that, but alas, I will press on and respond to you.
Exactly. Which in and of itself is contradictory to the hero design and even game design it could be argued. Just not worth even encouraging, imo.
No it did fix hide and rez. Just because you, and other forum Mercy mains, want to try to make “hide and rez” out to be something similar to taking cover and positioning smartly does NOT mean the two phenomenon are the same. Please. Spare me this line of rhetorical garbage. The “hide and rez” you and others try to argue exists now is NOTHING like the hide and rez that existed before. My supporting evidence? THE LACK OF DISCUSSION/YOUTUBE VIDEOS ETC ABOUT “MERCY HIDING SPOTS.” IT IS CLEARLY DIFFERENT.
It did.
Yeah that’s just your inability to understand the difference tbh. Like for real, you, and everyone that tries to act what takes place now is anything even remotely similar to the “hide and rez” of the past… Reading your comments just makes me think you really fail to understand the game, and the nuance, and the differences, and etc.
You saying that what takes place now is “hide and rez”, to me, is not some insightful representation of perspective… It just says to me… “I really don’t know wtf I am talking about.” Sorry to be blunt, but it’s true.
There is NO WAY you can compare ANYTHING regarding rez now to what it was during mass rez. I’d argue if you could compare the two, there wouldn’t be so many complaints. Ez game. GG.
Stuff like this ^^^. Legit no understanding of wtf is taking place when it comes to one vs the other. No. “I’m going to stand behind this wall so I don’t get head shot” IS IN NO WAY SIMILAR TO “I’m going to hide in a corner 20m away and then GA to the middle of my team on point and press Q the moment I drop below 50% HP.” Gtfo of here with that noise.
That’s cute. We’re talking QP and mid tier stuff here.
You get in a semi coordinated situation the Mercy will die first, all ult spam is dropped on the Mercy, etc, etc. Like it’s obvious. “THE COUNTER TO MASS REZ IS CLICK ON MERCY’S HEAD 4HEAD.” Yeah, and we did it. Thus the hiding. That didn’t counter Mass Rez either, just meant she couldn’t use it for that fight but you KNEW she had it next. And you can’t kill her too early depending on spawn distance, otherwise she might just show up again etc etc.
IT WAS A TRASH ULT. I know you really REALLY wish you could just exploit the lack of coordination and so on and so forth with nothing more than a Q press in QP and like mid tier ladder. That’s cute, and I am so sorry that you were robbed of that “impact” and “swing.”
I want Mercy viable. She was TRASH in organized settings, she was TRASH at the highest tiers, Mass Rez was used to bring up Pharah, not counter ult spam. This recent pipe dream fantasy of Mass Rez countering ult spam is a complete joke because you WILL BE THE FIRST TO DIE IN THE ULT SPAM. Period. Like ffs.
There is a reason Mass Rez, with no LOS, no cast time, and invuln, was simply blown to bring Pharah up in the pro scene. IT WAS A TRASH ULT.
None of us are good players. If you aren’t GM, you are trash. And Mass Rez was a trash ult, and it only really gave “impact” in situations where the enemy team was trash enough to allow it. The moment you fought a good team, you were useless unless you were attached to a Pharah. #RealityCheck. FFS.,
A LOT OF THE PLAYER BASE HATED MASS REZ. Especially the console player base. Like step down from you pedestal and take into consideration the reality of what it is you’re talking about. Responding to all this noise has just made me annoyed that the obvious seems to escape you so severely.
Please. Get real.
0 surprise.
Before invuln, it was trash. After invuln, it was trash.
You just want to style on kids with your Q to undo button in QP/mid tier, and you don’t give af about the viability of the hero etc.
Sad.
The fact you say this just shows how out of touch you are.
GG.
Please don’t respond, as you are achieving nothing more than annoying me and I don’t want to be silenced again.
Move tf on from mass rez plz. It’s in all of our, collective, interest, that we seek to make Mercy more engaging/fun/etc/etc WITHOUT mass rez. Sitting here trying to shoehorn a poorly designed and problematic ult into the game is stupid.
Edit: Here’s a little thing for the forum Mercy crowd. You CAN’T argue that the solution to Mass Rez as it was is “just click the Mercy’s head 4head” and then act like she’s going to be alive to be a “counter” to ult spam.
The ridiculousness and like self contradicting circular logic of this forum will surely drive me mad… Assume the people you are playing against know wtf is going on. Therefore, they kill Mercy first. Or, any sort of ult spam, like a grav combo, well, the grav is put on Mercy’s head. Mercy is ALWAYS dealt with first. What does that mean?
Her ult is useless, she is not even remotely close to an ult spam counter, etc, etc. But then you read these forums and “OMFG MERCY WILL SAVE US FROM ULT SPAM.”
That’s some QP mentality stuff. Please stop.
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Unless the survey was limited to dissatisfied Mercy mains, I think that’s a misconception. It got answered by Overwatch players, Mercy mains or not, who cared enough to get on a forum about it, that’s as good as it gets outside of official research.
It’s not a coincidence, Valk is garbage, I’m sure you tired of hearing about it at this point.
The fact that complains remained through Mercy’s various and diverging states indicates something is wrong and it can’t be fixed with a numbers tweak.
Her core was changed and she definitely can’t do more than before, that was the point of all her changes. Mass res did too much, then Valk did too much.
Res not an extra ability. It’s a cut down version of mass res. Technically Valk is an extra ability, but it’s an slightly improved, even less interactive form of regular Mercy.
The truth of the matter is that Mercy was never good. She was underpowered, then mass res was problematic, then reworked into an overpowered broken mess, now she’s just viable. It should be clear at this point there’s something very wrong in her core that wasn’t addressed with the rework nor it can be done with balance changes.
Factually, that is what research professionals would call “extreme bias”
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Call it late for dinner if you wish, it’s representative of forumgoers.
with apologies, bias is bias; and the opinion of forumgoers does not necessarily represent the opinion of the entire player community, many of which have never touched the forums
Nothing will ever represent the entire community, that’s impossible. The survey is the best we got.
Even if I were to agree for the sake of argument that it is “the best we got”, I would still say it is not free enough of bias to be worth anything in terms of proving anything
If we had two rotten and worm-filled apples, and one apple is more rotten and/or worm filled than the other than the other, the apple with less rot and less worms is “the best we got”. It remains rotten and worm filled.
And if you’re dying of starvation, the rotten apple will do.
I dont think we’re starving in this case, to extend the metaphor
Show me the food then, by which I mean good data.