Strictly comparing match quality and SR with both competitive queues right now. I’m assuming they haven’t done anything to the underlying code and parameters that make up the crooked matchmaking algorithm. At a minimum, should be able to at least dig out using best role.
you know, i want to think this too but the reality of my experience these past two weeks doesn’t support it.
twice now i’ve climbed back up to plat. both times it wasn’t hard nor was it simple it just was. i was winning 60% of games and steadily climbing.
as soon as i hit plat, immediate losing streaks down to 2300. 60% winning turns into 60% losing, on a whim.
my play isn’t changing. im not having a problem keeping up with the pace of the game. i’m just on teams with complete morons who i can’t support as they dive head long into 1v6 unwinnable scenarios.
this has happened twice in the past week and a half.
last night, started climbing my way out of the 3-11 streak i suddenly hit the most recent time going 3-0. the fourth game all the sudden i’m facing a lvl 25 ball tank who is executing flawless slams with a lvl 25 zarya bubbling him perfectly on all his dives meanwhile the silver hog on my team, yes thats right, a mid silver tank in an upper gold game, can’t hit a single hook on this ball when he isn’t bubbled, nor any other target for that matter. the unranked sigma on my team can’t seem to figure out how to take a single inch of space nor does he know how or where to setup. all ending up in a horrible loss.
which according to forum logic this loss is ‘my fault’. the 3 previous wins i clearly was carried, and this one game, all my fault.
do i think there are ‘forced losses’ … not exactly. however the match maker is failing to produce winnable games under certain circumstances. is it smurfs? idk, something is causing it though.
the argument “you hit your SR max” is BS too. If this were the case i’d go 50:50 and just stay at a specific rank +/- 50SR. however, when i can win 60% of games up to plat, then all the sudden lose 60% of the time while retreading an SR range where I was just winning 60% of the time … something is going on.
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Protip: there’s no forced losses, you just are around a 2200 SR player, so every time you get about 150 above your SR, you’re going to start losing. If I played on your account, it would disprove your theory.
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How would you disprove it if your SR is pretty much the same?
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Because 2600 is my “forced loss” range. If I want to get back to 2500 it’s not an issue. Getting above 2600 is hard because I’m a 2500 SR player.
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I wrote a pretty elaborate explanation of how the matchmaker could be working against you here:
Though, things seem worse than usual lately. Another perspective could be:
The game is heading more toward the MOBA end of FPS-MOBA. But, many of the players just want to play a FPS, and don’t understand concepts like ult economy, snowballing, etc. With tanks carrying so much influence right now, those players queueing tank to play like a FPS are unintentionally(or intentionally…) throwing games.
I can’t count the amount of times I’ve seen a roadhog using his heal pack more or less on cooldown, even with healers pumping ridiculous resources into him. They usually think they’re good, too. Meanwhile, the team is getting BOBed or tired every single encounter and the healers can’t look away from hog long enough to top up anyone else.
I regularly run into people in my queues who will rabidly defend solo ulting onto point because it ‘wasted their timer’, even if it later becomes clear that lost ult let them snowball.
I understand these concepts, but if nobody applies them with me or listens to calls, it does me no good. It’s been pointed out that to win at low ranks, you often need to make the risky plays the other team won’t expect that would be downright stupid 300 SR higher. This creates the idea that it’s the correct way to play, and people can’t adapt.
I want to play overwatch as a MOBA-FPS, but it seems 2/3 of my teammates are fine with treating it like CoD or deathmatch.
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2300 is a special rank where you have flashes of brilliance and the most idiotic accidental throws of all time. It’s the rank where the payload is a few meters from the end, and the defending team will pull a miracle out of their rear and hold despite being hard pushed. It’s a rank where YouTuber’s will swear they are watching a high plat game only to find out its gold.
You’ll find the border between ranks the most difficult mostly because people are often the most stressed out with the feeling of “just one more game” and “I’m going to get screwed again and not get to Plat/Diamond/Master”. It has less to do with the rank itself, and just the phycology of it. If you want to break free, you must not lets it bother you, but also hard carry with kindness. – (No joke; In this rank people tilt the easiest, and you have to appeal to their ego as much as possible, watch them like a hawk and cover over their mistakes while making as few mistakes yourself).
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placed at 3300 (open comp). today went 1 game above 3300. next 3 games: 1) 6 stack goats (with 4 people below lvl 50). 2) 2 dps players with 4k+ last seasons 3) same dps + high masters tanks.
P.S. all queues were like 30 sec of waiting. after 3 times i lost game took 5 minutes to finaly search for a fair match. nice
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It’s something that tends to happen when you’re close to reaching the next rank. E.g. a while ago I was on like a 15 game win streak up to 1980sr for support. Then all of a sudden the match I played in was insanely difficult. My team couldn’t even leave spawn. And then for dps, I was at 2480 and got stuck there for a while. Unfortunately you just gotta keep trying and grinding. It does at least seem that once you jump over that speedbump into the next tier, even if you drop, it’s fairly easy to get back up again.
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The magic number in open queue is 2300-2350. Your team will either be really good, or really bad. It depends on which side the MM wants you to be on.
Everytime the queue time suspiciously surpasses 2 mins, you gotta think something is up.
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I just lost five matches in a row and I carried super hard as tank. My DPS are so bad they cant kill anything. Now after five losses I bet the next five will be easy wins followed by another impossible five losses. This way I can’t climb.
This matchmaker is designed to make you stay and the only way to climb is to group with friends who are just as good or better than you are.
You cannot climb in Solo Que and if you do get lucky you will be forced back down by the system.
Even the enemy team were saying that the DPS players on my team were trolling / throwing and told them to stop ruining other peoples games. I had the enemy team say this in the last three matches we lost when I was playing tank.
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The earth also looks flat from the ground.
Don’t listen to this guy.
The crinkles disperse the mind control waves.
There’s no such thing as “forced losses”. There’s literally no way that Blizzard could do that. Think of how many players are trying to play at once. And how many variables go into every game that determines who loses. They can’t control who throws. They can’t control who disconnects. They can’t control who hacks. They can’t control people getting lucky/unlucky. And most importantly, they cannot control the decisions YOU make in your games. If Blizzard can make a program that is able to accurately predict and manipulate all of those factors to make sure that you, MIGHTYOWL, lose your game, they’re in the wrong business. They should be writing AI algorithms for Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos.
In all seriousness, though, it’s just MUCH harder to climb than it is to maintain. For example, my main account is just starting to tickle masters in tank and support. After years of playing. I used to struggle climbing into Diamond. Now I have little to no fear of falling past 3200 on this account.
Now I have another alt account where I’m placed around 2600 on tank. I KNOW I’m not really 2600. But that’s where the account is. It requires a LOT more of time and work to climb from 2600-3000 than it is to just maintain 3400 on my main account. I’m sure there’s a million reasons why that is. But that’s the problem. Not that there’s some MEGALORD making sure you’re paired with throwers or against hackers. There isn’t some puppet master that’s seeding thoughts into your brain that’s making you push even when your down your main healer and you’re losing ult economy.
It’s just harder to climb than it is to maintain a rank.
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Yes and no.
Yes his rating is probably right. But no to the reasoning you have that he isn’t getting “forced” losses.
The matchmaker gives hard games to people who have SR higher than MMR. Certainly not fair games. That is why people get tilted.
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No it does not. It gives everyone a balanced match for their MMR. SR is only a guardrail that restricts grouping. It has no affect on their matchmaking. What you’re thinking is that when someone’s MMR exceeds their skill, in which case yes it would seem difficult because it’s putting you with and against people higher skilled than you. MMR can exceed your skill after a win streak, lucky games, playing vs bad opponents, etc. Any time your stats were recently higher than you normally are able to do for a while.
Yeah, i play ashe in open queue, got 78% win rate with her, when i about to rank to diamond, the game put me with a team heavier than lead, then loss…
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I can think of an indefinitely large number of ways. Here are two, for free:
Method 1: You pissed off the devs so they hardwire you a very high % loss chance.
neutral_list = []
naughty_list = [RePoRtS, Scoops, SleepyB34r,…]
nice_list = [any diversity streamer advertising our product, blizzard friends and family]
If Account_Name in naughty_list: Set_mmr = 4500;
If Account_name in nice_list: Set_mmr = 500;
‘’‘Assigns the naughty player an impossibly large, hardstuck, and hidden mmr, forcing them into nonstop losses. Possible win in the unlikely event they actually perform at near that level. Also spoonfeeds VIP gamers free carries and wins.’’’
Method 2: Assign onto team with biased session mmr.
If Account_Name.win_streak > 3: Account_Name.assign(TeamL)
While p(TeamW) < 0.99: ; Knapsack(TeamW, TeamL, active_player_pool, sr_range, mmr_range, gap)
“”“Attempts to knapsack players of nearby sr/mmr ranges into two teams, but assigns the player on a win streak to the team with very small odds of winning. Odds computed by difference in team harmonic mean mmr. “””
Mind the synthax/typos. Just showing how easy it would be to rig things. It’s so easy to rig/force, an accidental bug could do it. In fact, the set of possible code snippets that DOESNT rig things is very small compared to the set that does.
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You’re probably right. They have so much free time that they code an overly complex system JUST TO GET YOU. It can’t POSSIBLY be that you’re just not good enough to climb.
Also you don’t seem to understand how MMR works. That would put you with GM smurfs (on both teams) every game, and put the nice people with children playing on purchased, boosted accounts.
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No one is talking about ranking up. They’re talking about match difficulty, evidenced by player intensity and ability, remaining consistent and scaled correctly by rank.
I’m not using the TrueSkill/Elo mmr used as a “chase target” for sr. Jeff said in an interview they only use a +3 to -3 scale (and we don’t think that means standard deviations). I think of their hidden mmr as a weighting factor on the team. Natural weighting is 1/6, but this “mmr” can shift you to where it expects you to absorb e.g. 2/3 of the team contributions.
1 Like