Yea top level as in GM…
Pro play is not the same as ladder play. There’s zero correlation. We’re comparing a place of play, where they have the closest thing possible to 100% team chemistry and communication.
That is PHYSICALLY, impossible to achieve, when grouping up 5 random players together, of different skill levels. Hence why, the meta usually differs from what is seen in pro play, unless the meta that is in pro play is able to be pulled off with little to no communication.
I’m looking at the Top 500 aggregator, and she was literally going lower and lower in pickrates every single season. In Season 5, she was literally the least-picked Tank.
Given that she still has the exact same problem as OW1 (people hate her when she’s meta and she’s the least-picked Tank when she isn’t), I don’t think there’s any way to argue that the rework was an improvement.
I don’t see how “this is imbalanced but really cool” makes things any different than what’s in the game right now. You literally just called this sort of mentality a “casual” attitude a few posts ago.
GM pickrates almost always heavily mirror pro pickrates. I have no idea what the hell you’re talking about here.
Fair point.
But if a hero isn’t appealing the balance of their kit is useless. Nobody will play them.
im not saying i wouldnt rather cass getting a better ult, but i have no hope for the dev team doing something competent like that so ill take a funny joke ult instead.
it could be effectively useless in game and atleast still have the “lul” factor going for it.
the point wasnt to say i want a dino ult, its to say idc if he has a dino ult as long as it improves the hero in some way.
now in a perfect world id rather it improve his gameplay because thats what i care about but as i just said i dont have much faith in the balance team to do that, so id be ok with it atleast bringing some laughs to us.
the difference between cass and mercy is that mercy atleast gets value out of her rez sometimes.
deadeye has historically been used as a 2nd reload because it was so bad as a dps ult. so going from a bad ability to a bad ability thats funny is technically an upgrade, its not the upgrade id want but its technically an upgrade.
replacing mercy’s rez with something new is an overall buff to mercy because she actually gets to use her ability more often (in theory) and have more engaging gameplay.
sadly that isnt true.
people play soldier all the time simply because hes effective at his job
yeah i just looked, somehow orisa has a negative win rate right now. WHAT ARE TANK PLAYERS DOING
They simply don’t.
Please for the love of god, STOP USING OVERBUFF.
Overbuff is fine, its just people dont know how to use it and also take it as gospel.
Its just the averages of the data it collects and it doesnt include alot of factors, but it still is usefull if you know how to use it.
Soldiers an excellently designed hero. Hes the tut hero.
Every hero shooter/moba has a tut hero.
Tut heroes are always somewhat popular.
Whoa.
WHOA!
Let’s not get too crazy here.
you might be right on this one
This includes out-of-fight time. It is used quite frequently in fights - once or twice in most fights. We got a fight today where she rezzed the tank successfully twice (mauga) and then failed on the 3rd attempt. Each time she did it from behind cover except the last.
It’s a completely broken ability in a game where a hero, the tank, is designed to be incredibly hard to kill. Having a 2nd, or even a 3rd tank in a single fight is just crazy stupid design.
You just admitted in this same post that you don’t have faith in the devs for giving a character a “better ability”, so the idea that just handing Mercy a different ability is horribly disingenuous double standard and makes it clear that the goal is to get rid of the ability, even if you have to put it in the hands of devs whom you are aware are historically terrible at doing so.
Oh really?
In pro play late 2016/early 2017, the meta was Triple Tank with Rein, Zarya, Hog, Ana, Lucio and Soldier. With D.Va sometimes used as a fourth Tank.
Oh, hey. What a coincidence:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4ktfVqIXyS4/WLI8t3dAyEI/AAAAAAAAACI/l32H1nHtOgM4g9rPEDMlobtk1sHeSl85wCEw/s1600/grandmaster.png
Okay, let’s see…dduring Season 1 of OWL, the meta characters were Dva, Winston, Mercy, Zenyatta, Tracer, and either Genji or Sombra.
Oh, would you look at that:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LG7g8KFuhSE/WruQbwssQHI/AAAAAAAABpk/AJkYaop5tMo0ItZl1AUAc35h8zX1gTpbACEwYBhgL/s640/mains.png
All of them are in the Top 9 of the Top 10 heroes played on ladder. Even accounting for the fact that Moira was new, Sombra and Hog had just been buffed, all of those heroes are meta.
Alright, let’s see… so Season 13 was in the middle of GOATS. The meta characters there were Dva, Rein, Zarya, Zen, Brig and Lucio. With Ana and sometimes Winston being swapped in.
Oh, would you look at that again:
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/59af2189c534a58c97bd63b3/1543327142176-4JE35KLKZM8OJTAUEVXK/Ranked+tier+list+GrandMaster+November+2018+Season+13+Overwatch.jpg?format=2500w
Even if you know how to use it, it’s still just inaccurate data that can be skewed by way too many things.
This stat watching, is the EXACT thing our devs do, and it’s the EXACT reason why this game is in such a garbage state balance wise. Because we think somehow, a stat sheet is going to show us more, than actually play the game at a high level and seeing it for yourself.
Stat sheets, don’t provide context.
oh and these oh so accurate stats are from where?
Because blizzard never releases public pickrates and winrates. Are you perhaps… using overbuff???
I mean, you can put your head in the sand and pretend that it’s a miraculous coincidence that these stats somehow MAGICALLY conform to the meta.
Also, the first two links are from seasons before private profiles even existed. Incredible how it seems not to have made any difference.
They would have to do other shifts to keep support player numbers up. Unless the tank changes make support picked up more, in which case, go ahead.
(it could be that they are waiting to see if this is the case).
If someone dies like this in a place like that, then good. That should be rezzable by other supports too
That’s great.
Can you explain what ANY of this has to do with my original argument. I literally don’t care about this. This has NOTHING to do with what I was talking about.
Its not really inaccurate though. When devs have said stats in the past it lines up with overbuff really closely.
Like in a dev blogs a few weeks ago, then mention orissa and how she isnt leading the pack and that goes to rein and sigma depending on the rank.
The data there is accurate enough, but people just use the data wrong.
Like saying Overbuff shows X hero has this much winrate that means they are OP.
That is using the data wrong, but that data about winrates is still accurate