You say she is easy to kill, but doesnt she have about the same average deaths as other heroes?
Like ya low health makes her easier to kill, but small hit box, lots of mobility, and recall all really help to midigate that?
From playing agaist her alot, I wouldnt say Killing her is any easier then killing another hero. Heck sometimes she is harder to kill then some heroes due to recall + blink
On practice range those numbers stand.
But being fair, from someone that used to play Tracer a lot for fun and now do it once in a while, her playstyle changed completely. Youâre more of a resource drainer than an assassin. Youâll buzz around enemy backline and make them waste attention and some CDs on you in order for your team to take the lead (if theyâre competent, that is). Solo assassinations happen far less often right now, heals are too good.
See I dont play her not a fan of her playstyle. But Ive played agaist her alot. So im basing this off of playing agaist her not as her.
And I still see tracer getting kills, and escaping due to her abilites often. I should know Im often the one dying to her since I do a decent chunk of support.
Not a problem at all, youâre entitled to have your opinion on the hero, itâs also good for the discussion that we have different point of views on this.
From my perspective the value I get on Tracer is not compatible with the risks of playing her. A support (or both) can peel for my target WHILE having sustained value on the frontline (Ana nade, Bap immo, Moira orb, Illari pylon, etc) rendering my flank useless. Mei spam can onetap me at any range. Bastion is a pain to kill due to damage reduction and his crit box being behind him on turret form (which doesnât make sense anymore since he can move, but ok). Sigma can peel for days if he plays smart. HP is far too sensitive to random panicky spam and that enables pretty much every hero to put me on one tap range, so itâs only really safe to engage once every 12 seconds. Which is a long downtime where most of the time you canât even poke if you really want to save resources for the next engage. A lot of things can prevent a Tracer from having a good fight, so the most effective strategy I got for it is to waste enemy teamâs time and, if they realize what Iâm doing, Iâll swap.
If I put the same amount of effort I have to put on Tracer on Soldier, instead, Iâll more than likely carry while having almost none of the same risks. If instead of Soldier I picked Mei or Bastion, for example, I could pretty much play one-handed while having a drink and checking my emails.
I donât know on which elo you play for Tracers to be that effective, but on my elo people tend to shut down Tracers pretty quickly. And Iâm not implying anything by saying this, itâs just my experience too.
People seem to forget that off tanks were the people that cleaned up for a lot of dps heroes.
Thatâs at best debatable, especially when we are talking about Tracer.
Totally fair, In QP it completly random, but when I do rank I play around the plat level, so sometimes higher or lower just depends.
I wouldnt say Tracers are 1v5ing but they often are causing enough pressure where we need to either focus them, or spend resources just to live.
So around where im at she feels balanced.
But a side point about this
I sorta dissagree with this to a extent.
So I play alot of Mobas, league, dota, smite, and Hots. Due to that I see heroes that range wildly in effort to value. Example zues, you can just click a button to kill someone anywhere on the map if they are low health they have a bouncing attack and a easy to land stun, He can easlly carry games and the hardest part is just knowing when to use a ability. Where someone like Anti mage, has to blink next to someone and attack them multiple times and puts him self at risk due to his low health. For him to get a kill it require alot more work/effort then Zues.
And there are hundrend of heroes each with different levels of effort to do the same thing. So when I come to OW and see people complain about different levels of effort to value, I always am a bit supprised. OW has a large cast of heroes with unique kits, so for me it should be obvious/accepted that some other hero can do something easier than another.
Like tracer needs more effort to kill then someone else, but a reckingball might look at tracer and see that the amount of effort to use their mobility is much easier on tracer compared to ball.
Im bad at explaining hope that makes scene.
Thereâs a reason she famously was run in winston/DVA comps.
The issue here is the fact that Tracer is the hardest DPS. She should be getting more value than Soldier for the same amount of effort. Itâs not fair that she doesnât.
Ball and Tracer are not in the same role. If Ball was a DPS, he should be stronger than Tracer because he has to put more effort in than her.
Which is why I say im surprised.
I could use that same statment about dozens of heroes in MOBAs, but that is just something we have accepted over there.
Someheroes can and do require less effort for the same value, is it fair? not really, but it will never be fair in a game with such a diverse set of kits.
I used them as a example. X hero might require less effort then Y hero, but Y hero might require less effort for something else then X hero.
But it can be. Tracer used to be the strongest DPS in the game.
It still doesnât work in-between roles. This is a DPS issue. Tanks donât fit into the discussion at all.
I understood your point, but Iâll add something to Peaceâs response:
This is where we kinda differ, but it might be just on semantics. I donât think Tracer should get more value due to being harder to play. But I do think Bastion shouldnât get as much value as it gets while being so easy to play. I think the keyword that better explain what Iâm trying to say are âefficacyâ vs âefficiencyâ. On that note, at the current state of the game, Tracer are on the low end of both, while Bastion have his cake and eat it. On Zeus/Antimage comparison, I believe it goes for while Zeus is effective in confirming kills, Antimage is efficient in getting them at that range. There is a trade off and the effort still exists, but it shifts to another competency. I lack to see it on current OW, tbh.
Also, in QP I fâing stomp as Tracer, itâs not even fun, but thatâs the nature of playing on a large group of friends on great rank range. On ranked, Iâm currently not playing much, but mid Masters/low GM are not much forgiving to Tracer mistakes, so the punish is real.
Yeah, I think this is semantics. I think value should scale to skill. Meaning that Tracer would have more value than Bastion as a tradeoff for being harder, while Bastion would get less value as a tradeoff for being easier.
Tracer has never been ONLY effective on dive comps. If anything, having one less tank enabled flankers to be more aggressive due to supports having less peel.
I think Bastion, for example, has no business in being as effective as it is with little to no trade offs. Mainly because his lack of mobility does not get him killed unless heâs turbo feeding.
No, Tracer needs a rework. Just buffing Tracer is a horrible idea, I donât know how many times that has to be shown to people or that itâs an equally bad idea to just add more problems.
Tracer is designed poorly and is fundamentally unbalanced. She needs a rework, not to keep warping the game around her and then getting buffed to continue to warp the game around her.
Which I agree with, but then it comes down to how do we define effort?
What is easier? Hitscan or projectile?
Was sym noodle beam easy or hard to use? Is tracer easy or hard?
Everyone will have a different answer and even the ones who have the same will disagree to what extreme.
Example: People love to say mercy require no effort but provides immense value, but many who play mercy for a decent time will say that she does require effort to play effectively.
Both sides are right, its subjective. But when it comes to balance its really hard to balance off of subjective topics like effort or value.
Which is why i mentioned stats befor, (note we shouldnt just balance off of stats but its one of the few objective messurements we have) when I look at tracer, I see a hero with a ok winrate, average kills per match, death per match, ect.
So stats wise i see he doing ok, maybe a bit on the lower side, but not terrible. And then combine that with my personal experience of seeing tracers both carry and throw games I agree with the stats.
Am I right? yes, but so are you guys.
Gotta love opinions!
No hero in this game needs a rework.
Funny, because sheâs been regarded as the most balanced hero by almost EVERY good player for a very, very long time. Until recently, she also had the best skill to reward ratio.
You just donât like getting outplayed by Tracer players that are better than you
I also donât think reworking her solves all the other issues. If weâre advocating for a Tracer rework, of all things, we might as well ask Blizzard to work on OW3.
Effort becomes pretty clear through game sense. Thereâs a reason high ranked difficulty tier lists all look the same. While it is mostly subjective, there is some objectivity to difficulty. For example, Sojourn is an objectively harder Soldier 76.