While bliz correctly does it in an open way to prevent the mods going commercial… by not preserving the creator id, many people will be reluctant to invest a large amount of time to make something polished… They want to be accredited for their work. It is totally understandable and the reasoning that the platform is commercial doesn’t stand at all.
I love how all the people saying that this is a bad idea have never spent a minute making something. Keith or Dan what do you guys think about crediting makers? Don’t restrict copying, just protect it.
On a personal note, Im keeping all my scripts private until something is done about this.
This is a good point
Even IF blizzard implemented a simple “Disable copying this game”
It would encourage more original content creators to finally enable their game to the public, now we’re seeing the same modes over and over every day, until someone makes a mistake of making their game public which means total loss of motivation for that guy – his game has been copied without credit all over the custom game browser.
This is just a lesson about pirating xD
Seriously though, I like this idea! How many people know who invented Ana paintball? Credits (or version history) would be an 11/10 idea.
In my case, I have to recreate my project multiple times but wiith different structure and mechanics multiple times to combat the conditions and actions limit restrictions. This is my 4th time redoing the whole data structure, adding functions, among other things, in order to squeeze in some extra thing in.
Right now Im stuck since the the algorithm only partially works. I need to debug it to see if i can get it to work or it’s back to the drawing board to come up with another algorithm solution for the problems.
Hi guys, while we don’t have privacy options in the Workshop right now, we are open to the idea of supporting it in the future. We don’t know what this would look like exactly, but there are good points being made here that are worth looking into.
Thanks for your feedback, and thank you for working with us on improving the Workshop.
Might as well mention it now for mods, there are games listed here which are not made by Blizzard, they are used to help make a point. I would not consider myself advertising them, however if you feel it is, please message me first before banning to remove or edit what I have put.
Ok, I really just want to go over some points here from two people I see here opposed. A great comparison for this new feature is Garry’s Mod. If you are unsure of what Garry’s Mod is, it’s basically a game where almost everything is made by the community in Lua. I am not trying to make this post hostile, I just want to show some of the thought process I have having come from this background. (Also, this is really long.) So, let’s start.
The most popular gamemode in Garry’s Mod is DarkRP, while I don’t play it, it is well known within the modding community that most servers are copy paste. However, the gamemode itself “everyone” knows who created it. The gamemode is still being updated all the time, something I doubt would happen if the creator was unaccredited. Thousands of people are playing it at any one time.
This code is publicly available, the only differences I see here between this gamemode and something someone here might create is that, the DarkRP creator is known and you need to know Lua. Almost everyone here who creates something with workshop will know at least some programming. People who copy however, they don’t need to know anything, so as mentioned by others, the original creator may have no motivation to update their code or make new creations especially if it’s just being stolen (no accreditation).
Finally, let’s address the quote directly: “not your gamemode. its blizzards. you have no ownership or anything” - correct. “what possible profit would somebody rid you of if they used it? huh? none. literally none” - incorrect. Now you’ll see why I made the above huge tangent. According to blizzard legal documentation:
Note: I was unable to find anything specifically referencing workshop, understandable and this may change.
People are far more likely to donate to someone with reputation than someone who does not. So, yes, actually there is the potential for people to be at loss of profit.
People are also likely to want a gamemode created but they don’t know how so go to someone who does, possibly for money. Whether or not that’s allowed, I don’t know.
I actually agree with a lot of this. The thing I don’t agree with: “who suffers here”, people should be accredited for their work. They suffer because others are taking credit for what they spent time and effort on, unfair and demotivating. The rest I agree with.
Already discussed the monetisation above.
The workshop may be a sandbox but I’ll tell you right now I find it far easier to make something for Garry’s Mod currently. With the workshop I can’t see why something isn’t working, no prints/logs to look at, no error messages, working for one round and then not the next. I mean, the entire reason I even visited the forums today was to find out what was causing issues only to find others were also having the same problems. I’m sure they’ll fix most of the issues faced before this goes live, but Garry’s Mod where you actually build most of what you use from the ground up with an api instead of a “sandbox” is easier for the time being so I really don’t understand your comment. And if you meant that a person should just go out and make a game by themself as “original content”, you’re joking right. Most games have teams of people, this workshop is great because it encourages a single person to make something. Most/All games have at least some inspiration from another game. Things like FFA, TDM are not original…
Brag about it, you are aware that quite a fair few people have gotten jobs from mods they created right? It even happened with Starcraft II’s modding tools.
A lot of people will put this type of experience in a portfolio, I know I do for anything I create for any game.
Also, why can’t people do it for the sole reason of being validated that what they’ve done is a good thing. Let’s be slaves and just create things. Joy of creation only goes so far, a lot of joy comes from knowing that other people appreciate what we’ve created. A lot of times I’ve left a community being thought of unappreciated, all that work I was doing, nope not anymore. I’ve left things half finished, oh sure they were working but there was so much more potential there. Then people come out of the woodwork to say thanks, while this helps me keep going, all the motivation I had for them (as a community) is already dead, I won’t return. So, what exactly is wrong with being validated?
The best way to win an argument is to insult people…
Things being open source is so far from the problem I wonder if you even read half of what was said, people are taking credit for someone else’s work. Sharing is caring, I share a cake with my family, I still expect a thanks…
Also, this isn’t even open source: denoting software for which the original source code is made freely available and may be redistributed and modified. We don’t have the source code and doubt we ever will, some of the “functions” available could change drastically behind the scenes and we would never know. Funnily enough you also get accredited in open source software.
Learning from other scripts, again, not the issue, copying pasting and claiming it as their own is.
Just because it’s owned by Blizzard does that mean people shouldn’t get recognition, the workshop is also owned by Blizzard, does that mean the Dev’s: Dan and Keith don’t deserve recognition for creating it…I wonder why they were named by Jeff in the Overwatch Update video: https://youtu.be/naPxnU2-4no?t=53
Probably a good time for a TL;DR or a summary but sorry, you’ll have to deal with this.
Anyway, anything that could be used to help with this I'm probably in favour of.
I think the best option would be to have three things:
- A ‘Created by’ field, with the original preset author
- A ‘Modified by’ field, with the name of the last person who modified the preset
- A history log, which shows who edited the preset, how much they added/removed in total and at what time.
There should be no way for anyone to modify these fields. Halo’s Forge has/had a similar system I believe. Even if no privacy options were added, this would go a long way to helping people find the original creator of a mode.
im glad to have the developers on our side on the matter!
please dont restrict copying, or viewing the insides of a copy… if someone makes a gamemode, others and the less expirienced should be able to open it up to see how it ticks!
just a very simple ‘Made by:’ field that contains the gametag of the first creator that gets shipped whenever the preset is saved by someone else would go a long way.
you could even put a Version box that the original person with that gametag can modify, so that its easy to check if a version you have is older than the current version :3
I appreciate that you took your time but I have to disagree in some points, I got raised like many other people that you never ever do things for a thank you or for anything else, you just do them because you want to be nice and social. Begging for attention/appreciation is gross Imho. About the source code part: The source code is this case is the workshop script, you might edit in GUI but it will end up in a script file which can be loaded and unloaded by the servers any time. When we continue with your view of thing we could go ahead an say the Garry’s mod add-ons have no source code since the Lua scripting engine can change drastically aswell and we don’t know the implementation of the face punch studios behind it.
what is possibly your motivation here? do you just want to win and feel great about yourself? all we ask is a simple bit of text that makes it so the original creator gets a bit of credit. this will hurt no one, and only make it so more people feel comfortable going public!
but no, fun and joy is not allowed, because ‘sharing is caring’. we arent allowed to feel good for having spent so much time ‘tinkering with settings’ right?
the bottom of the fact is that its easy to implement, wont restrict anyone or take away current functionality, and atop of all, make many people happy!
but please… enlighten us. what are your arguments on the table? and dont bring up stuff like ‘what you say is trash’ or ‘people should just be happy’ or ‘begging for attention is bad’. bring some actual arguments to the table here why a small text of ‘Made by’ would hurt the workshop community as a whole more than it would benefit
You answered my goal in your last section. I just don’t understand why you just cannot commit to overwatch without being highly praised.
thats for other people to decide weither they accept that or not, not yours. if you wish to upload without any acknowledgement, then so be it. but a lot of people just wont do without it~
So I continue and say that it is just gross to create things for being praised, even when they are most likely just copies from other games, however this is a circular argument we could continue all day long so I stop here.
What? Your argument makes no sense.
Why should someone else be praised for your work? Would you like that happening?
The problem here is NOT me wanting to be praised, the problem here is that other people are getting praised for MY work, and that is what I’m trying to prevent.
live and let live. if this movement for a change would inpact the workshop in any other negative way, i might have been able to understand you.
but as it stands, all you mean is ‘people shouldn’t be happy when someone says ‘thank you’ to them’ and you feel thats wrong. let them have that happyness and just move on with your day~
its very sickening that you are one of those people that just have to stomp on other people’s happyness, just to feel good that you won the battle.
So you think I stomp on you, because I want to motivate you to do things without being accredited in life? Well then I guess I stomped you, I hope it worked atleast.
thanks, but you aren’t my mom. nor did we ask you to educate us in life~ life itself is an far greater teacher than you could ever be.
and i cant believe the same person to hinder others in this manner just does it out of the right of their heart~
In an idyllic utopia, no one would ever need to do any good deed or work for nothing in return. We live in no such world, at least no time soon anyway. Your view seems rather bizarre as it is common practice everywhere and in almost every industry to credit work where appropriate, including things like movies and video games, and even games within games. You can’t expect people to work for nothing. A workshop game mode could take many hours or more, time that otherwise could have been spent making money. In many cases you get what you pay for. The reward in this case is may just be gratitude, or even a thank you. No one is expecting anyone to beg for anything. A simple “this mode was made by this guy” would probably suffice for most of us. Beyond that keep the code open to the public. Or maybe an option of allowing sharing, but I’d leave that to Blizzards discretion.
Either way, most people agree work should be appropriately credited. Blizzard adds credits to their games, so this does not seem like a far off request.
I think maybe Players shouldn’t be able to copy settings but instead “save gamemode”. They can’t alter or see anything, they can only put the game running, and that mode would always refer to the Original creator.
Then the creator could test things in public, go back to improving the mode, replace the old version by the new one and so on.
Then if blizzard decided to add that mode to arcade it would be so cool if they could give some credit to the original creator