Sadly there is still the issue of tank becoming possibly more boring with the missing off tank, but I feel like balancing the abilities and stats would be easier there than just a 5v5.
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Well that’s the thing. I dont find it boring and some do, we like what we like.
I honestly believe both modes are hard to balance right from the nature of having over 30 heros and it’s never gonna be perfect despite how much money and talent you throw behind it.
6v6 IMO just made it more forgiving to be off by a few numbers and most players will be fine with it. Hell I never complained on any social media platform before OW2 came out cause I digged it. I had my nit picks of some heros but never wanted the formula to go away. Just change some numbers on X hero(s) and it will move from okay to better.
With OW2 the 5v5 balance is on a high tension set of strings and if one is too tight then half of the others ones work less and is more noticeable than 6v6.
Okay I think I’m done for today. I need to take a few days off from here, I don’t even play anymore 
I think in the metal ranks, the role with the most carry potential is DPS.
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If you’re a cracked Tracer, Sojourn or Widowmaker, you nearly don’t need your team for anything, so even with terrible teammates, you have a huge impact due to the nature of those heroes.
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If you’re a cracked Tank player, lets say Hog/Ball which have a ton of carry potential, you might struggle if you have terrible teammates, especially healers ie someone refusing to go Kiriko if an Ana is annoying you or DPS who are not capitalizing on the space you’re creating.
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If you’re a cracked Support and all your teammates are trash, you have the least chances to carry the team amongst all the roles.
But you see, as a DPS player in lower ranks, you definetely have the upper hand. If you’re better, YOU WILL win or to say the least have a huge chance to win the game, especially when using the heroes I mentioned above.
steam rolling existed just as much in ow1, idk what made you think it didnt lol
the difference is more people are playing now and everyones talking about it. but people have said “every game is a stream roll” for 6 years
No way plus matches didn’t end so fast like they do now.
Both don’t play the same and you’re delusional if you think the same outcomes happens.
how you gonna say this didnt happen when people have been using steam rolls as an excuse for “bad matchmaking” since 2016?
jeff kaplan literally had to come out in june of 2016 (i had to find the forum post on the old, now defunct ow forums) too explain how matchmaking works because people were paranoid about how it was intentionally forcing a 50% winrate putting ppl on winning streaks into matches to lose.
and one of the things people complained about back then was that “every match” was a steamroll
this is what happens when the game is popular. a large influx of players brings in all the weird complaints.
if you’d like to read jeffkaplans original explaination of matchmaking from 2016
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20745504371#post-3
you take this and put it into the wayback machine (a website) and it’ll show u a cataloged copy.
https://ibb.co/ZzPF83N
decided to go through the forums of nov 2016, instantly found a post about genji and widow lol
ok this one is really funny
https://ibb.co/1fJmfDt
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I never said it didn’t happen, I was saying it got worse in OW2. Again my experience in OW1 since 2017 had steam rolls yes but the ratio wasn’t enough where it made me quit the game like OW2 did.
You miles may vary and this is where whatever you have on paper vs what you and I have personally experience will always differ. In my experience OW1 worked with flaws and all, OW2 with 5v5 feels wrong so give me all the on-paper data you want. Feel and personal experience is what I’m focusing on and my experience with OW1 was delightful for the most part.
You feel your experience with 5v5 works better for you then cool man, not hating you for it but you gotta understand why I say these things. I understand why you say what you say and sadly I don’t agree and that’s fine. It’s a discussion and this is one of many where other’s don’t agree with me, most of the time they do but hey I can’t persuade everyone.
I miss my OW1 broken and all.
i cant say if it got worse, because imo its never been a real issue its just something that naturally happens.
no one players at 100%, so when you take 12 people and pit them against eachother, or now 10 people, some of them are going to feed, some are going to pop off and its the ones that play consistently that climb the rest are always in a 50/50 steam roll machine.
i miss OLD 6v6, pre role queue, pre goats.
but if we are talking end of ow1 6v6 vs ow2 5v5, i pick 5v5.
also you should check the images i put in my post. the 2nd one is someone saying widow needs to be buffed, circa july 2016. actually funny when you consider where that hero would be in a year from that point xD
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Well I’m saying it got worse, from experience of course 
Widow needed buffing back then? Oh jesus lol
Still this is why I keep sayin over and over again OW2 would of been a welcome addition to OW but to repleace it was an extreme move and now there’s people like me on here cause that was my jam and I’m not digging 5v5.
I get goats and double shields were a problem but I liked it or didn’t really mind it (mainly cause most team didn’t do it well lol). I WANT 5v5 to exist but not at the expense of deleting OW1 which worked well enough even at the end of it’s life. Just some more number tweaks and BAM solid game for years while 5v5 can take some time to slowly grow and mature and slowly win over the 6v6ers.
I still stand by the idea that Blizzard shot themselves in the foot by alienating the vets and not giving us an option to play the old game. Like that was a dumb move.
she actually got nerfed really early on, and they did buff her i believe it was around oct 2016 or nov 2016. but that largely went unnoticed because around the same time they giga buffed soldier and then reworked dva and that was the start of the season 3 tank meta lol
id prefer if they could just bring us back to pre goats era levels of balance. the game was fast paced but almost every hero felt good.
the issue imo with ow2 isnt steamrolls its the gap in effectiveness between the “best” and the “worst” hero in a respective category.
that just ruins the experience for people. imagine you are a sombra player right now, you’d feel completely useless when compared to even an A tier pick like junkrat/sym let alone sojourn.
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So I wasn’t around in 2016 during pre-goats. What changes to tank made it so that was the prefered meta?
This topic I can get into and pick apart but I’m just gonna take your word for it cause you’re not wrong but right now I can’t think and I’m hungry af.
This talk was insightful tho so thanks for that even if we did bump heads once or twice.
well goats was the culmination of a lot of different things.
the first taste of a tank meta came in season 3. towards the end of season 1 they added ana, and she was even stronger then, then she is now.
her nade would double healing and her nano added a speed boost. so season 2 became the “bayblade” meta, you’d take a zarya, reaper and an ana. and the zarya would bubble reaper, reaper would go in and get nanoed and ult.
that resulted in nano getting nerfed to no longer giving movement speed, but towards the end of season 2 they reworked dva (because at this point she was TERRIBLE) so that her defense matrix had a fuel bar instead of a set duration. along side that they also gave her more armor (same total hp pool though). and in season 3 you got the
rein-dva-hog-ana-lucio-soldier meta.
this went on until they eventually nerfed ana and dva enough that the comp couldnt sustain enough.
and they added in orisa, buffed winston and the first dive meta started.
lucio-zen-winston-dva-tracer-soldier was the typical line up, sometimes you’d put a sombra or a widow instead of soldier. in ranked play you’d see alot of lucio-ana with a genji.
that meta lasted until mercy’s rework, and that created what most just call “moth” which was a dive variant, but mercy became a dominate hero for a while.
fastforward and moira is added into the game and she almost creates a 4 tank meta, but ana + some balance changes prevented that from happening.
then in 2018, fairly early if i recall. they added brig into qp, and she went live with season 10.
that was the final straw for goats.
moira+brig+lucio+rein+dva+zarya became the “anti everything else” comp. it hard countered dive and it could run down any 2/2/2 comp.
that comp would eventually evolve into zen-brig-lucio-rein-dva-zarya because zen made it easier for you to burst a team down and you didnt need moira if you wernt avoiding dive.
the simple explanation is that tanks naturally had alot of defensive utility that on its own wasnt that much of a problem because you couldnt sustain them.
but like the season 3 tank meta, and the moira tank comp all you really need is very high healing or aoe+cleave healing and you can run as many tanks as you want. which is exactly what goats did
brig-moira-lucio had speed from lucio + his aoe healing when stationary, passive brig healing (and her armor pack) and cleave heal from moira.
all ofc on top of the DM, bubbles and rein shield that helped too mitigate dmg.
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This right here is why I think I like 5v5 better for tank
agreed i want to play my tank and not have to play hog because you picked rein or sigma because you picked orisa
Yeah. With tanks it was so much more necessary than any other role. With supports it’s pretty flexible as long as you don’t run Mercy Lucio or something. With dps it almost doesn’t matter. But tanks were always needed to synergize because they relied on each other too much. That also meant that if your other tank wasn’t as good, it was harder for you to do well.
I rarely had the team mate willing to go main tank and I never did. It wasn’t a guaranteed loss or anything but sometimes it was incredibly frustrating. I think I eventually just looked for a way to essentially solo tank without relying on my other tank to make space.
sadly that still happens in 5v5, the difference is its not your teammate that forces it: its the enemy.
like lets say you pick winton and win the first fight so they go hog and you get farmed. you can either swap orisa or match the hog pick but sticking to winton is a bad idea.
this is a key issue that needs to be addressed with the tank role
yes but that is counter play and is for every role
wrong
its alot stronger for the tank role then any other role.
if your tank isnt in the core rotation you are basically throwing. like picking rein instead of hog/orisa (or sigma on certain maps) puts you at such a massive disadvantage that theres no point in playing the hero unless you have thousands of hours on him at a high level.
more importantly, counter play is a low skill and low effort thing and its more impactful in ow2 then it ever was in ow1.
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I agree 5v5 is awful
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how so, dps they have a good pharah you have to go hit scan like soldier unless your good enough with the hero tank is the same, support they have a good ana you have to go kiriko
he has the second highest rin rate and highest pick rate of all tanks