I do and don't like hero bans

General Discussion
41

Yes. They have to come to you eventually… that was the entire point of Goats. You can out range them all you want, but eventually Goats would get to the point and then you have to drop and contest them.

Ps Rein moves faster now shielding then he did during Goats(post Lucio speed nerf). You can approach under Rein shield, then take cover for a few seconds to let it recharge. You don’t have to run directly from spawn to point.

You are not going to knock a coordinated brawl team off point without Ults or coming down to contest without giving them a tick.

42

LUCIO was in goats and he wasn’t AOE healing…

It was SO goats could close. No Lucio, no Goats.

43

It is ladder though. I was able to stomp goats wannabes with my Widow/McCree all the time… Because they suck. What you are saying does not apply to 99% of players. You can brawl without a Lucio at most levels of play. It is not as though they have some coordinated perfect comp and you do not. Both of likely running garbage comps and half the people are not saying anything useful… At best

44

Ok, that is fair enough.

I DID preface it with

People still complain about Mei’s left click, with no good reason for why they are there EXCEPT when walled at the choke…

It drives me crazy when I see people complaining that they HAVE to get with close range of a hero because they are on the point.

Like, the point is designed to be the WORSE place on all the maps to be. Don’t be there while you are fighting.

How hard is that to learn.

You see all these people on high ground in Anubis A, jumping down on to the point to fight.

Just shoot them from back there. Use the cover you have.

45

Classy! You’re better then that dude, use your words.

…

It’s like you grabbed the one single sentence to argue, and ignored my very next that covered that.

Rein doesn’t NEED Lucio to go fast anymore, it helps, but it’s not insurmountable by any stretch.

46

So, how do you force the fight?

They are on high ground, shooting you… you are on the point, dieing… now what?

The issue isn’t that he can’t move at a normal speed, the issue is, you can’t fight someone who doesn’t want to stand in your face while you do so.

47

Yes, at high ranks too. OWL is basically the exception as… Well, they do actually have a full coordinated team and they are much better at the game.

Overwatch has this weird fixation with garbage GM streamers somehow being top dogs or whatever… In the fgc, we call them online warriors. They are a joke, rarely placing in any relevant tournament.

The most recent example is that Calvary guy, everyone rides him because he is supposedly the best Genji and he cried about how Genji was not viable because he could barely make GM. Random professional player plays on ladder with Genji and gets 4.5 or was it 4.6? Idk. My point is most top players are playing in tournament and not messing around in GM which is really just master plus. The skill gap is basically the same was how gold players view bronze.

At the highest level, Lucio matters. In GM, even… Rofl… Whatever dude.

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48

Look, I’m just angry they jump down from high ground INTO brawl.

It is a bug bear of mine. I’m like, Wait team, don’t jump down there to die!

and off they go… Then someone says something like “Why is Mei so strong?” I jumped down from high ground for no reason, and took her in close range, and she froze me.

It just makes me sad.

I’ve been a support player for too long, the stupid, it burns, please make it stop.

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49

You force the fight by being on point!

Why are we dying? We have a shield, bubbles(or a second shield), healing, a personal shield, and the ability to fire back. Plus numerous maps you can avoid LoS of their setup(most have something in the middle, odd corners, etc).

The difference is, they are on the clock until someone drops or they wipe us, and that clock moves quick with 6 in the box.

50

I took 2-2-2 as a means to assist with a problem that the devs can’t fix which is the community has far more people unwilling to work as a team and rather everyone else build the team around them thus leaving the people that do try to be a team player constantly filling for them. There are other issues 2-2-2 helps that could arguably be fixed by the devs (getting 5 support “mains” on a team while the enemy team is more well rounded for example). There are no perfect systems or fixes and of course 2-2-2 brought different problems like dps que times but that’s part of the compromise.

Bans I think can be argued more for possible fixes instead of implementing bans but honestly I feel like the top level of play is always going to find a “meta” I mean that’s the very concept of meta, so bans help shake it up and demand people be more flexible otherwise they may find themselves in trouble. Again though this is debatable.

51

But you can fight WITHOUT being on the point :slight_smile:

Please don’t jump down to your deaths, you have so much to live for.

Yes, and you do as much damage from up there, as you do down there, the difference is, they are a brawl comp, and will DO a LOT more to you down there, than they can do to you up where you should be.

Like, oh no, the clock is ticking, is no good reason to decide to die on the point.

WHEN the clock is about to end, then someone has to get on the point, and it doesn’t have to be the whole team.

Don’t take brawl comps in close range.

Don’t poke yourself in the eye either, it shouldn’t have to be said, but it does, over and over again.

You lose REALLY good positioning by jumping down, so, what is in it for you? so the brawl comp can be nice and close where they are most effective?

please, I beg of you, stay up there, and kill them.

52

I’m aware of all of that.

You said “how will Brawl without Lucio ever be able to force a fight?” I answered with “by getting to point. Eventually someone has to drop.”

I appreciate the tips and all, but I play Sombra, you don’t have to stress the importance of high ground or avoiding melee range death to me.

53

Oh hell, I should have guessed from the name.

Ok, look, Instantly, you have my respect. Anyone who can make Sombra work is someone I look up to.

Talking about that, you have seen the how to stall the point as Sombra video?

It is amazing. I’ve did it to a team and they were SO mad. I’d been practicing it for hours, and got the perfect map :slight_smile: I was so happy.

What I was getting across is people take that fight, when they don’t have to. If you can rely on that, then, you don’t need a Lucio.

But, we NEEDED Lucio to make Slambulance work, We wouldn’t have even made it to the point without them.

So when we are talking Meta, then Lucio becomes super important.

We would have lost EVERY horizon map without it. The people we were playing against were just better than us. Sure as hell better than me.

I took up playing Ashe, from Sombra.

So, I’ve been using the same positioning, getting up to high ground, and not taking on anyone directly - and it works, so well.

It is why I end up crying about people taking on fights they shouldn’t.

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54

Ashe is not a sniper.

55

I don’t like it because as a support or tank main it sucks. There’s not enough heroes in those categories to enjoy playing something else

56

:+1:

I wish I had a recording of me saying “Take your time and regroup, don’t trickle. I got the first 2-3 touches no problem… then I’ll EMP” cause I say it waaaaaay too often. I do miss stealth contesting though.

NEEDED is the important word there. Back in Slambulance days Rein moved like molasses, now he shield walks as fast as he did with Lucio previously. They increased his shield movement speed specifically so he wouldn’t NEED a Lucio to be playable.

If Sombra teaches people anything, it’s healthpack locations, high ground, and how to take fights that are in your favor while staying far away from the ones that aren’t.

57

this is my problem with it too…
i feel like one single ban isn’t impactful enough in the DPS category, but a single ban in the tank/support category literally demolishes some strategies.
i just don’t see how they can healthily implement this system into the game without it being an absolute pain to support/tank players

58

My issue with hero bans is it limits counter comps and experimentation. Which if a tank or support got banned, limits the already slim choices they have and combinations that character brings.

It’d also be annoying to not be able to play the banned character. All that work, detail and character traits kept in a corner, till they get let it out so that someone else can be shoved in the corner.

While it would be great for a lot of toxic one tricks to get a wake up call and assess learning another character in case the one they play is banned. It doesn’t feel right having some outright dogmatic views the community has judge such a case.

I can see it used for OWL, Contenders or other pro tournaments. But outside of that I don’t feel the community is ready for hero bans in comp.

I’d much rather we get more on the Tank and Support lineup and address some balance issues first :man_shrugging:

59

We so need to be able to record our own voice line.

Mine would be “Oh, hell, I have so very staggered, so I am SO sorry”

I lose track of the kill stream, and end up as last man standing SO often, and it takes me a bit to think “oh, I should go make myself dead…”

My team is ALWAYS so pissed with me.

I still think it is the case. Anubis, Pt A, if I am on support, I just speed boost at the choke, and run everyone under the bridge.

The amount of damage it saves your team from taking is amazing.

Oh sweet god yes. EVERYONE should Sombra it up for a while.
High ground, it is not only your friend, it is your ONLY friend.

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60

This is what I’ve been arguing against. There isn’t a single comp style you can’t run even when missing 1 character. You might lose a bit of effectiveness, but that’s exactly the point of a ban system.