I am once again asking for Support Symmetra

This is the thing though.
Symmetra has always functioned as a support hero with DPS elements and still is functioning that way, but in the DPS slot, which is the main issue.

When they made Sym transition from 2.0 to 3.0, all they did was remove one of her Support abilities (Shield Gen), swap 2 of the support abilities around (teleporter & photon barrier), & ramp up the damage values of her only 2 methods of attack.

Not only that, when they transitioned Sym from 3.0 to 3.1 & 3.2, they reworked her teleporter to be less functional for her own use & more functional for supporting the team by making the Teleporter’s uptime not self-destruct & give it a huge cooldown as the rebalance.
And then they nerfed her Beam damage later on, too.

If the current design still doesn’t speak Support, then Lucio & Brig could practically be called DPS with their damage uptime, too, if their 2 or 3 methods of attacks got a damage increase.

This is actually true.
People always demand Hog to be put into DPS because of that reasoning.
Only difference is that the loudness from the community is quieter, compared to when they demanded Symmetra to be moved to the DPS slot.

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all supports have utility

except for moira

I find this insistence on moving her back to an ill defined category on launch that also had Sombra in it to be puzzling when, as OP notes, there’s never been a healer Sym.

She is a builder, one of two in the game, the other also being a DPS. Yet we don’t insist that Torb was a Support, either, even though in his release version he provided much more in that category than Sym did.

It’s almost as if the devs had zero clue how the game would evolve and how poorly the original idea of classes converted.

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She was just as much as “support” as torb was.
By this logic torb should be in support too.

Either way it doesn’t matter because healing is too important to be traded for anything else.

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with the way role queue is right now she wouldn’t fit in as a support…she’d have to provide shields again like she use to

And even way more than that.

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What Symmetra could heal via her teleporter? Like, let’s say her teleporter was buffed so that taking it heals the player for, say, 20% (yes percent) of their total HP, with a 10-sec cooldown between uses of the TP (for that player)?

She…did feel like one? I was a support main who mained her and Mercy? Pretty much most people who mained her was a support main and has since moved to playing mostly Moira or Mercy since the DPS rework from what I see.

You gave teammates 25 HP. Like Brig’s repair pack but permanent.

You created area denial with turrets to slow enemies. Debuffing enemies is a support quality in many games.

You didn’t really have high damage output but instead were good at screwing with flankers who got into your backline with auto aim beam.

Your ultimate was a low budget Mercy mass rez to help allies get back to the fight faster.

She was literally a non healing utility support. The issue is that non-healing supports did not work, and she was only viable on certain maps with a Mercy.

But as OP said, in OW2 it’s going to be 5v5 and the Devs said that there’s too much sustain which is making them nerf the HPS of supports across the board. So it’s the perfect game environment for a low HPS Sym to work.

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I was there and I was maining her and even played her super aggressive than a way that she is no longer capable of doing.

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The way the game is now support sym would be an absolute throw pick. The support role has been so massively buffed since launch that in order to compete a new hero needs to do at least 10k-15k heals/game as well as provide loads of utility. Old Sym could never do this. Maybe she could be reworked to provide this massives heals but would she even be Sym at that point?

No. Sym had shield gen, tp and a barrier.

Torb’s only support ability were his armor packs. These were very inconsistent and he mostly used them for himself.
Just because 2 abilities work similar you can’t say those 2 heroes work the same while ignoring the rest of their kit.

4 Likes

uh none of her kit elements screamed/screams “let me protect you”.

heck the only thing you could possibly even remotely argue that has anything to do with protecting others is old barrier and even that wasn’t that good for it unless you just so happen to be next to the person that needs protection which was highly unlikely given the mobility and range disparity between her vs everyone else, let alone the fact that it was so easy to get around whether by going through it or a diff angle past it.

you know what actually screams “I will protect you”? an ability like zarya’s bubble that literally protects you on demand (i.e. much more feasible to get it in in time to actually protect someone esp when it’s unlikely that people that need it are immediately next to you or so). or a more consistent and less ally dependent version of brig’s kit.
shield gen, old or new barrier, turrets, her weapon, etc. all of them simply ain’t that.

I said “it screams tank more than it screams support” not “she should be a tank”. I firmly believe that she should be a dps and that her core shtick is zoning (not the frontal zoning kind that tanks do, but the jungler, espionage kind of zoning as depicted in her 1st comic).

I’m sorry did I miss a short story or comic where she’s actually tending wounds? literally she’s not doing that in any of her comics. and no, repairing a statue is not healing, otherwise why the heck isn’t torb a healer for repairing bastion or canonically rein’s armor or heck for pretty much inventing omnics iirc?

except

  1. those said heroes are remaining damage heroes from communication thus far (i.e. no indication that they would be changing roles).
  2. the point being made there was “making her into a utility support is basically solving her solutions as a dps (‘utility dps label’ or not) while needing to do so under a harder constraint increasing risk of failure —> there’s no point to doing that instead of just fixing her as a dps” not “utility dps has a place in OW2”. idc about what people artificially put a “utility dps” label on.

there objectively is an uptime problem there which literally has nothing to do with being a “utility dps” as shown by the fact that other “utility dps” simply not exhibiting the same problems. and the fact of the matter is, making her a “utility support” is just unnecessarily handicapping and unnecessarily increasing risk of failure, while the solution that would’ve been better without a role change that wouldn’t bring all this extra baggage.

what specifically are you claiming will she lose here to make her “not sym”?
because the bulk of her “utility” rn is in team tps and ult. and her not having team tps but still having her individual tp to flexibly and creatively zone, infiltrate, grab sneaky, angles, etc. is pretty “sym” (heck, it’s even directly representative of her only lore combat shown in her first comic).

yet her debut lore concept (i.e. her release vision) displays a cunning woman that conducts corporate espionage, sneaking around, claiming enemy territory, killing where necessary, etc. to achieve her goals.

as opposed to mending injuries, or moving in to protect someone or someplace, or statically fortifying defences against an infiltrator, or anything that would be indicative of the “fortress defence” or “protection” or “healing” vision you’re claiming.

pretty sure they don’t want that, but are being forced to because community bias against cc and various other utility which ultimately forces their hand to need to nerf various other things to make sure balance isn’t thrown out of the window if they’re to nerf cc.

Felt more like Mercy was the sole support. Sym’s “support” potential rapidly evaporates if you’re not super close- it was all about holding space, so your team has to move in to take advantage of the space you hold. Everything screams tank except the ult, and no one is calling Orisa a support because of :b:ongo. A key thing about supports is being able to do your job while affording your teammates the positional freedom to do theirs and Sym failed miserably at this.

Lol I am still hella salty about getting Syms on the team and having to solo hard healbot because they pranced off to narnia and pretended they were helping simply because shield gen was up.

I disagree, I love turret bombing and melting ppl w my 180 DPS beam as Sym! The only thing I miss about her is her photon barrier ability but I’ve moved on tbh

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Every Symmetra main I know said they’d stop playing her if she became a support. Maybe we could give her some fun and balanced utility without changing her role? Utility is not reserved for supports only.

It would be nice to expand on her Building aspects to squeeze in some support functions. Like how Mercy switches to Pistol, Switching Functions with Symmetra allows her to be a builder.

But that would be difficult to balance.

3 Likes

agreed…
I’m just thinking the absolute bare minimum would be shields but definitely more often than she use to provide.

also if they turn sym into a support they’d probably throw sombra in there too. A rework of both characters would be necessary though

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I think there is a decent chance of this happening.
Symmetra has a LOT of utility at the cost of her ability to get uptime alone.

In OW2 there is less tanking which can lead to less uptime on Symmetra.
In OW2 there is going to be more reliance on each role to do their job, for example Symmetra will need to actually do good damage alone to justify her pick (much like what they’ve done to both of Mei’s methods of fire).
This means either Symmetra gets a ton of buffs and nerfs to her utility to compensate. OR they move her to support to keep her utility strong and rework her to maintain that utility.

I can see the same happening with Sombra. The only way hack could stay as a “silence” is if Sombra is in the support slot and some of her other abilities are replaced to heal.
OR she will stay in dps and hack will be changed to suit that role.

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This.
Sym 3.0 can’t exist in OW2.

They have to do something.

  1. Keep her as DPS and buff her uptime but remove her utility to compensate.
  2. Make her a real utility support.
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I have suggested this before, so why not here?

If they were to give her support role back:

  • Make her beam flip between damage and heals similar to Mercy, but as it is now, no auto-lock. Aim will be required.

  • Allow it to ramp up in either case. She could even charge it up on a shield and use it to heal.

  • May need to adjust damage and healing numbers per second to prevent her from being too powerful.

  • Add to her turrets the ability to heal if there are no enemies around to fire on.

  • Adjust the damage and healing numbers per second for the turrets again to prevent being too powerful.

  • That and/or:

  • Bring back her personal shield generator and convert it to an area heal. Low output but constant. As a comparison, probably a bit less than Lucio’s, maybe a wider area with LOS required. Either lasts longer than Soldiers (say 30-60 seconds) or last till destroyed or re-deployed. Depends on how strong it is.

Can’t bring her into the healing fold without sacrificing some of the power she has now.