How would you want Ana to be changed?

The objective is 20m wide.
Antiheal is 8m wide.

If you’re having a problem landing it. That’s a “you” problem.

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You didn’t answer my question. I’m asking what other support ability is more difficult than an Ana nade?

Because I don’t think deflecting away from the conversation is a productive way to have a conversation.

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Well you made a statement and I’m disagreeing with that statement. The fact you said:

Is blatantly wrong.

If you’re playing a support hero to get value on the objective (control) then it would almost always be Baptiste.

Do I really need to explain how 4m radius is also 8m diameter?

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I’m making the point that there’s no way a high rank player would value playing Ana because “her nade is good because of her radius and the objective is 20m wide”. Like hello? The only time someone would make that argument is if its in low rank and everyone just groups at the objective.

Ana’s nade actually requires Ana to think if using the nade will put herself in risk or provide value or to heal a tank. And on top of that you need to aim on walls/ceilings. Bap/Kiriko, you just press a button if they’re in danger. If you want to make the argument on “too easy with too much value” then Ana’s nade is way below on that compared to other supports.

80% of the forums who “claim” that ana is an easy hero I’ve seen vods of them running around and no-scoping and nading themselves when they’re low. It’s no wonder low ranks complain about Ana when they don’t even know how to use her and blindly jump into her nades.

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Well that’s more of an ideological opinion.

From my perspective, the devs cared about high ELO primarily between 2019 and mid 2022, when they had that $160 Million dollar YouTube exclusivity deal running.
https://archive.esportsobserver.com/sources-youtube-actiblizzard-160m/

That’s dead. That’s been dead for a while.

And they will probably announce OWL 2024 any time now. With them offering teams a total of $30 million dollars to disband.

And the idea that you’re referring to, that the devs should design their business to only cater to 0.1% of their potential customers, is laughable.

There’s more to “game design” than pickrate and winrate of 0.1% of the players.

OWL is basically a “Marketing Expense”.
Catering to high ELO streamers, is also a “Marketing Expense”.
“Marketing” is almost always less important than “Sales”.

And they primarily are going to increase their “Sales” by designing the game to get as many players as possible.

And those high ELO streamers? You know what’s more important to them than patches tailor made just for them? Money. Specifically money from Twitch subs, and from paid promotions. And the main way those streamers as-a-whole get more Money, is by Blizzard getting more Players.

You’re the problem with the OW community. You are the reason why when forums members put out suggestions for balance and the devs listen to them. The 0.1% aren’t suggesting balances that only cater to them, they are asking for changes to make the game more fun. To say top rank players only ask for balancing for their own rank is ignorant. Of course they have the casual playerbase in mind, what makes you think they don’t? In what world is the current “nothing dies” meta fun for anyone? The whole reason why tanks aren’t being played is that nothing dies.

I’ll flip that back on ya.
If every single player like you quit permanently, across the entire playerbase.
It wouldn’t matter much in the big picture, as long as the total player count went up.

It’s not about winrate, it’s about the game being fun. Back in the prehistoric days, Mercy ult rezzed her entire team. It really didn’t help her winrate, but my god it awas awful to play against, and usually meant the mercy was out of a team fight so the rez would have maximum impact.

Nade has two effects that are both detrimental to the game; one, its heal boost contributes to the issue of “nobody ever falls down” in the game. It’s possible to be mowing a hero down with everything you’ve got and they’re just healing to full anyway. The other effect functionally erases the bulk of a support’s kit for three seconds, makes it VASTLY more difficult to play tanks (in an environment that is already very unfun to play tank), and even completely counters a hero like Roadhog. I realize counterpicking is a thing, but one ability should not completely erase an entire hero.

Sleep Dart is also an artifact of OW1, and has all the unfun qualities that got other hard CC abilities removed (Flashbang, Doom’s stun, Mei freeze, etc) or reduced (Hack, Shatter, so on)

Ana’s problem isn’t that she wins. Ana’s problem is that she makes the other team want to quit playing.

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It really doesn’t matter, because the devs keep listening to terrible takes of low ranks and this is where the current meta is. We need more voices to advocate balance changes from top players.

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What makes Ana more oppressive than a Mercy pocket? Perma discord orb? Immortality? Rez? Suzu? Nade is the least oppressive than all of these. And especially at top rank, Bap/Kiri/Mercy are the most oppressive of them all. Not even Zen. Like I can at least deal with an Ana with nade on cooldown. Bap/Kiri/Mercy are unkillable.

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  1. It really doesn’t matter which heroes are top picks in 0.1%, as long as they aren’t too annoying, and there’s “enough” variety.
  2. They should focus on removing that “annoying” factor.
  3. Yes, the main overall design constraint (assuming the devs are factoring in high ELO) the devs have is if the meta compositions get too durable/flimsy, as it relates to teamfight durations. There’s a bunch of ways to fix that. For example:
  • Lower Tank health
  • Lower Tank Healing Received
  • Convert Tank Armor into HP
  • Lower the effectivenes of Tank/DPS defensive/escape/sustain abilities
  • Raise the cooldown of Tank/DPS defensive/escape/sustain abilities
  • Buff Support Firepower
  • If the above doesn’t work, Lower some of the heals on Ana/Bap/Moira
  • Reduced amounts of OverTime

Also they could offset reduced mid-combat heals, by giving everybody an out-of-combat regen passive and/or out-of-combat healing-received boost

Firstly, you haven’t established that her design is OP. Secondly, saying her design is OP is the most skill issue critique I’ve ever heard about her. She has relatively long cooldowns, no escape, and a high aim requirement offsetting all of her upsides. Her design isn’t an issue.

I’d argue her issue is a player base that decided she shouldn’t be able to debuff them.

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That doesn’t address the underlying issue of why overhealing is the problem. The problem is new supports heal way too easily. AoE healing and Burst healing are at an all time high. How would you balance Kiriko if Kiriko can heal at long distances and at any angle? How would you nerf Bap’s AoE healing? You can’t lower tank health and expect tanks wanting to play the role. Ana isn’t the main culprit. She has a single heal and her nade heal has already been nerfed. It’s usually with another duo support that amplifies her nade healing, not Ana.

At high ranks, and I’m not quite sure if this is a problem with Diamond/Master players. Bap,Kiri,Brig are the main problem with overheal. Even if Orisa gets nerfed further. Sigma/Rein is still a problem and Bap will still overheal everything. If it’s a Doom/winston/Ball/Zarya meta, Kiriko will overheal. You can’t balance these things. They caused the overheal problem in OW1 and it’s still a problem now. They are fundamentally broken and need to be reworked.

Well that’s easy.

In Killing Floor 2, it takes a full second before the buffered heals are “recognized”.

So you can rapidly heal somebody to full, but they still die because the 1sec timer didn’t kick in yet.

I have words about Discord and Suzu as well, but we’re talking about Ana.

And again, it’s about the feel of the game. Should one character’s one ability be able to deform the game so much? Should one ability do so much? I mean there’s a lot of design space to open up if you just split 'nade into its component parts, too, instead of piling them all on one character’s 10-second cooldown.

Lamp is the biggest problem ability in the meta right now and that’s not going any time soon. Nade isn’t even close. You can play around an Ana nade, you literally can’t do anything about a Bap lamp. 2nd most problematic is Suzu.

Well you could also just… nerf it.
And then fill the void with something else.

For example:

  1. Cut most healing by 30%
  2. Tanks/DPS get a regen passive, but it takes 5sec to kick in, and have to be near at least 1 teammate (I.e. 20m through walls) Regenerates full health over the next 5sec.
  3. Also after 5sec of not taking damage, all players receive +50% increased healing from teammates.

So there’s less in-combat heals, but more out-of-combat heals.

That’s across all supports, and again, Bap will still be #1 in healing output.

That just makes the “nothing die meta” even worse. You might think DPS/Tank players will heal after a team-fight, but smart players will abuse this and run away to get healed by themselves.

Again, smart players will abuse this and just run and hide. Fights will last forever.