How to properly implement 3-2-1

Competitive Discussion
1

My thoughts on how to properly implement 3-2-1

First of all, I would like to thank Jeff and the dev team for continuing to keep us updated despite the harsh feedback last time. The 3-2-1 concept is something I had never thought about before, but I think if it is implemented right, it can be great for the game.

My credentials:
Bronze to T500
(Bronze S3/S4 hit T500 S19)
4241 Peak
Some T3(4400) scrim experience

3-2-1 Fixes a lot of issues, such as que times and double shield, but also brings a major problem. The problem is that it makes off-tanks (Dva, Zarya, Hog*) practically useless.

*I know sigma is commonly classified as an off-tank, but I believe he could be used as a main-tank in a solo-tank scenario. Also it is important for him to be classified as a main-tank in order to remove double shield.

A common solution I’ve heard for this is to add a “flex” role that can play both tank and DPS. This wouldn’t work for multiple reasons. The first being that it wouldn’t change the meta. Orisa sigma would still be meta and most flex players won’t want to play tank. This would create conflict in ranked because any team with double shield would automatically have an advantage, and any flex player not playing tank would get flamed.

The Solution:

My solution is to implement 3-2-1, but give the DPS access to off-tanks. Any DPS can choose an off-tank, but only one is allowed per team. This would allow a 3-2-1 scenario to work without having to rework the off-tanks.

Some people might argue that the issue of needing a second tank will still exist under this method, but I would have to disagree. By forcing the potential second tank to be an off-tank, it will balance the game much better. A second tank will be viable, but not a must pick. Plus, you would have three people who will potentially pick it instead of one.

I really hope this will be seen because I believe this will make the game more enjoyable for everyone. Thank you for reading and please give feedback.

5 Likes
2

Me neither. 3 tanks, 2 dps, 1 support isn’t often played or studied in QPC.

Or does everyone actually mean 132, using the apparently not universal tank-dps-support convention. Sorry for the notation psa :frowning:

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I am reffering to Jeff’s post about 3-2-1.
(1 tank 3 dps 2 supports)

4

Ok so 132 is the street name for that. The correct notation is somehow important enough to warrant hiding any and all multi-stacks in comp. I’ll stick with tank-dps-sup for the remainder.

Just like 303 (goats originally meaning a specific variant of 303), 141, etc.

Key points that still need addressing:

  • Why not trial 121 + 2flex?
  • Why not just regular, open, creative, unjailed?
  • Why not just rankedQPC or some other alternative to appease people.

Points that feed into the above:

  • Are we sure 132 fixes 222 frustrations.
  • Does 132 alienate tanks to a lesser degree than improving the experience for dps players via queue times.
  • Does 132 diminish match quality compared to 222.

I agree that 1+ tanking is something you might want sometimes, but not always. The biggest reason 132 could flop is because people are still feeling jailed in. For many attack rounds, 132 scales and feels better, but on defense 222 scales and feels better.

5

I think 1-3-2 is a pretty neat idea. Dva could be buffed to be a main tank, and Hog, Zarya, and Hammond could be switched into DPS category since they basically are just specialized dps.

Plus all tanks could actually get buffed to become tankier this way as well I think

1 Like
6

hi i like you suggestion but ive made an alternative post that is very similar to yours im just going to copy and paste what i said here but maybe we can combine our feeds if you agree with it so we can get more traction.


Outcast

55 posts

2h

I think that if they split the tank que to shield tank and no shield tank.

what i mean is one que for tank you can only play
sigma rein orisa winston.

the other que for tank would be for
Hammond Hog Diva zarya.

if they did this it would make the tanks have more fun and it would be more balanced. you would have a high chance of synergy and even if you didnt it wouldnt matter as much as you would never have to go up against double shield.
sigma wintson orisa and rein all have shields but there shields are all very purposes. rein is for pushing together orisa is for holding together winston for dive sigma for versatility. it wouldn’t really be that bad. and going up against tanks that are synergizing versus just double shielding is more possible to beat with skill even if the enemy has synergy and you dont.

7

As stated on the other post by multiple others. It will lead to poor balance having only one tank.

The second that one tank gets hard focused and deleted by three dps the steam role will start.

It’s good they are working on other things but it’s bad for the game and will be a negative change for the game.

It comes down once again to giving the players too much freedom. The player base can’t be trusted with freedom. The last three years of the poor competitive state the game was in is a perfect sign of that.

Everyone complains about q times. I am a dps and honestly I don’t care about the q times. It makes the game so much more enjoyable. Everyone’s trying to solve something that’s really not a big issue.

If anything it helps. You lose a game get a bit tilted. Wait for ten minutes you cool down and relax while thinking over your mistakes and how you can improve.

8

Wait, are they looking at 1/3/2? This is what i was hoping they’d have all along. I mean, the hero pool is 8/16/7, so 1/3/2 makes sense to me.

9

Could just make 3 dps slot have 1 flex slot…this way you keep some of what makes 222 viable while opening up some alternatives.

10

Team A selects off tank, team B doesn’t. Team A wins easy, who to blame?

For me this is the last straw, i am quiting overwatch and will never play another blizzard game. They destroy every game, just because they only listen to sales people instead of game designers… Every decision they seem to take is to further destroy the game. I said before 2-2-2: game and players are not ready for it, it will create more problems then fix. And i was right.

Same counts for roles and this decision: Most tanks need support of their team to work(like all shield tanks). You now already have mostly 2 dps that ignore their team… Soon we will have 3. All none mobile tanks will become useless, because they get easily overrun, flanked or surrounded. They will be nothing more then shield bots standing on point waiting for the slaughter.
Playing rein with a good zarya is lots of fun. So rein can also use its hammer from time to time and go full aggressive. Even dva matrix etc did the same job.
A solo tank can not create/hold space. So tanks will be nothing more as a dps hero with a bit more health, just flanking around. Or a shield bot/someone who stand on point/car while the rest is flanking around.

The 1-3-2 change will only change into a sniper/flanker dive tank meta, with 1 poor bastard standing on the car. Or a hero like mei playing as 2nd tank.

The group based shooter i bought will become a solo frag game shooter just like cs:go.Another CS clone. Just with different heroes, but still no roles or much teamwork.

So this will be my last post.
I am going to wait for Camelot unchained.(niche game build for a small % of the players, and will not be influenced to what the masses want, so it becomes another clone of a game 1000 times cloned already ) Lets hope they will keep their promises and make a good game that will not be destroyed by salesman.
Maybe see you there.

11

so what is the problem with 2-2-2 where you can only have one shield tank at a time?

12

If they do all this crap I just hope they first implement this in qp for a long long time and then when everybody is fairly used to it, we can have it in competitive.
Maybe some of you don’t understand it, but shifting all the balance of the game to accommodate 321 will dramatically change the experience of an off tank. I see the misconception way too often here that the role of an off tank is to rush for kills on a fat tank a$$. No babies, the role of an off tank is to peel for backline and enforce the positioning of the main tank. Changing the entire hero pool to make this change effective will mean that in low rank main tanks will be almost unkillable and that all the DPS will stop playing rewarding heroes like genji or mc cree. I tell you what the meta would look like: Main tank just is the hero that can fcking push the enemy team like a train the most, one DPS will always be locked on Reaper/Mei to counter him and DVA/Zarya will be mandatory to deal with that DPS. And playing Dva and Zarya will not be fun as you hope, but just counter pick patrol, even worse than now, as DPS will have even a worse impact on the flow of the game, since you just need to focus the tank, kill him and then it’s just deatmatch for the rest of the fight.

13

Its actually very good for the game you see it as only 1 tank but if they add 3 dps to the game it means they can move the off tanks to the dps role and you never know we might be getting a lot more utility heroes with overwatch 2.

the off tanks all work fine been changed with lower hp and more damage and its not like any of them see play now anyway why would anyone play dva/hog/zarya a dva and wrecking ball with both reduced hp and a little more damage would open up fun comps it would also make dive comp meta again seen as tho dva would be moved to the dps slot.

You can still play mei/zarya/reaper with a rein it would just be impossible to play double shield like we have every game now the big problem about 2-2-2 is 3 dps players can outplay rein/zarya but they cant outplay orisa/sigma because together with the pull they take so much space just from abilities nvm they can 1v1 any dps hero because they can shield and shoot at the same time.

Its the same for winston/dva 1 tank winston and 3 dps can beat 2 tank dive because sombra is in the game.

14

Thats basically what this change is but we would also have the option to play 3 dps instead of an off tank with the main tank.

15

Everyones just calling it 321

16

yeah but we should have 3 dps its should be 2-2-2 1-3-2 that is dumb like hog is one of the best dps so no you wouldnt have 3dps you will always pretty much have hog and 2dps we havee 2-2-2 for a reason this community is not responsible enough to play 2-2-2 without it being forced on them. so why think from 1-3-2 they are going to think this time the community is going to be responsible.

literally you play dota or LoL compettively and people dont have to be forced into picking supports for top and bottom lane that is the community.

blizzard knows the community is going to not do what they are suppose to and continues to just make it more possible to flame each other. not sure how this makes them more money but i know it does and thats why they do everything they do. prob it promotes buying a bunch of alt accounts.

17

Could just make dps slot a flex slot for 1,3,2. Then you get 3 team structures for 1 minor change:

  • 1 tank,3 dps, 2 supports
  • 2 tank,2 dps, 2 support
  • 1 tank,2 do, 3 support

Solves problem with leavers 2…assuming the game automatically reassigns flex to another dps if dps flex is a leaver.

And you have some role variability in a game that could be more focused on map geography…I hope :joy:

Android auto correct…is so bad.

18

And what, radically reduce their health? At that point their fundamentally different characters, but I guess it could work.

Though I don’t want to play a 250 hp Zarya or Hog. That’s just sounds like a bad time.

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jeff said it would be 400hp hog and no damage reduction on the self heal ^

20

Giving tanks even less options to counter something will just make the few tank mains left quit.