How Overwatch's female villains could've been better

I don’t even think the problem with female villains is that they’re not evil enough or even that they’re too evil because most of the time they actually are very much evil. The problem rather is that they just don’t have enough or rather aren’t allowed to have as much depth as villains to be that compelling and interesting.

Now I am not saying they necessarily need to have redemption arcs or even tragic backstories although the latter one doesn’t even have to be out of the question either but they don’t possibly need to just be evil for evil’s sake.
I want female villains who actually pose a genuine impactful threat to the heroes that can’t just be thwarted so easily instead of just being some annoying nuisances who you can deal with relatively easily. Their rather twisted philosophy is often the best way in performing this because it can make the heroes and the fans alike question their stances about the world and their own actions. Let them do unapologetical deeds, and not be particularly remorseful about it but at the same time allow them to actually back it all up. Let them have interesting and extremely compelling motives that make them engaging and interesting.

For Shion I hate how most of her villainy is mostly being centered around her abusive relationship with Mizuki despite giving her a rather cool and actually innovative backstory. Because if Shion was male then we might actually call it anything but abusive and maybe then the emphasis would’ve been more in how she was merely preparing him to survive in a very cruel world. Because it’s not like Shion was treating Mizuki so harshly just for the heck of it. Yes she was primarily raising him to become a Hashimoto enforcer. And honestly Mizuki broke free from Shion’s leash a bit too easily and the Yokai also saved Toshiro & Genji way too easily. Like maybe just save Genji but not Toshiro.
Also Lucio’s father seemingly just escaped from Vishkar way too easily. Which takes us to Domina.

I feel like Domina would’ve been far more interesting if they actually gave her a vision she’d try to enforce on Vishkar instead of just basking in all her fake glory and thinking only about furthering her own power. Or is that perhaps something that should be reserved only for male villains because female villains can’t have any actual depth whatsoever lest they’d be far too sympathetic to even be considered as true villains? Because I was actually expecting Sanjay Korpal to be exactly like this. But the upper hand short story already labeled him as a spineless opportunist which surprise surprise Domina also kinda turned out to be. So perhaps they should’ve reserved that to solely Sanjay by chance.

And to be fair her insecurities and the societal pressures she faced from her family don’t exactly help make her as depthful as people like to make it seem. In fact they just feed into her already shallow character. Wanting power for power’s sake can’t possibly be her only motive.

So instead of making Domina just a vain and egotistical power for power’s sake stereotypical female villain who only cares about herself perhaps she should’ve instead wanted to root out the hedonism and complacency from Vishkar. She would actually disagree with her grandfather’s more open ideals instead of trying to live up to them as she would see them being the exact reason for how Vishkar became too complacent and hedonist with their technology. She wouldn’t need to pursue biolight or sonic technology just because she wants them for herself. Instead she would simply not trust anyone outside of Vishkar with either of them and believes that they’d be in much better and safe use in the hands of Vishkar’s architechs than anyone outside of Vishkar who would just cause unnecessary turmoil. And the same of course would go towards hardlight too.

And notice how none of this is even necessarily tragic or sympathetic of her. Because if anything her current story already makes her needlessly sympathetic by portraying her as a victim of a system where you are shaped only by the opinions of others from which she saw no way out and thus had no choice but to succumbing to it by creating a false image of herself to gain other peoples approval. And yes it is indicated that she doesn’t seem to care about the opinions of others about her but in the end she still does heavily rely on them to stay in power.

She doesn’t even need to see the error of her ways and eventually repent but she should be allowed to change her approach when faced with failure but never just sulk and whine about it and let it be the end. She should also be allowed do absolutely unforgivable deeds like maybe torturing and perhaps even killing Lucio’s father just for defying her vision. And this would ultimately make Lucio consider the cost of his rebellion and having absolute freedom such as putting those you care about into grave danger but it would eventually drive him much further to rebel against Vishkar. The family pressures and the emphasis on natural talent instead of actual hard work could’ve worked well on her as well but instead of trying to create a fake impression that she is naturally talented when she’s not thus feeding on her ego she would’ve attempted to break the whole nepotist system and move towards a more meritocratic but still rather limiting and totalitarian system. The mechanical arms do work on her too but not as an extension of her ego but rather the tools with which she would impose her vision. And her being feminine, c**ty and an absolute diva is also completely fine as long as it actually further expands her potential.

I also want to clarify that I do not hate either of these characters. On the contrary I actually like them. I just think Domina could’ve been much more than what Blizzard made her since I’ve been waiting for a properly evil Vishkar villain for a long time and feel so disappointed to see how poorly they ended up making one.

Edit: And before anyone brings her up yes I know Moira exists and has existed for a long time already and that’s why I consider her to be the prime example of how to really write a compelling female villain who isn’t exactly tragic or sympathetic either.

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Kinda curious now on what your take on Vendetta is? Widow and Sombra?

I think you have great ideas, especially for Domina. Her design was far too good for the lazy backstory they gave her.

Their lore has always suffered from feeling incomplete, for everyone. They’ll come up with something cool and then they never flesh it out and make anyone actually interesting like with an actual personality not just a vibe.

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I think Vendetta is just shallow as Domina: seeking power for power’s sake just cause she feels she’s entitled to it. And I think the whole Vendetta vs. Doomfist setup also felt kinda stupid. She basically just serves as a plot device for Doomfist’s own character growth whilst she is seemingly denied any of her own because apparently her only destiny is to fall without chance of ever rising again.

Widowmaker on the other hand isn’t really allowed to be tragic or sympathetic like Sigma or Emre are since so far we haven’t seen that much of her fighting the brainwashing even after leaving Talon which just kinda robs her of any agency as a villain let alone a tragic one.

And when it comes to Sombra I am kinda glad how they’ve tuned her into more of an anti-heroine especially through her being concerned for Sigma but I’m not sure people exactly are looking for more of that. Though I could be wrong.

And actually I want to talk about Freja too. Because I actually like how cynical she is following Overwatch’s fall and her current job as a bounty hunter forced her to take on far more drastic and shadier jobs than she used to do in search and rescue but her omnic racism by calling omnics “bots” was such a random and unnecessary thing to give her that serves no other purpose than to make her another scapegoat for Ramattra and also far more unlikable than what was needed. Like it’s one thing that she dismisses others who just want to help her but this was something she could’ve certainly been much better off without.

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It’d be cool if Doom came back with a whole new crew of his own and crushed Talon completely once and for all. He would defeat Ven in a duel and deliver her to OW and they arrest her. Then they end up needing her on a mission and she starts to become more of a reluctant hero with rage issues she works on controlling. Maybe. So much potential is just sitting on the table.

Sombra, I agree 100%. She’s always been handled pretty well by the lore team to make up for her terrible in game rep.

I’ve always wanted Widow’s true self to reemerge just to be crushed by the guilt. Kinda cliche but she can’t just be ice queen forever.

Freja, that’s interesting. I didn’t know she was racist to omnics. There could be some really saucy stories of some heroes refusing to cooperate with omnics. They could make them analogous to being anti-woke, that could be actually deep but probably too brave for blizzard. She’s going to linger as untapped potential like many others in the meantime. Maybe one day they actually try to tell a story.

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Also maybe she doesn’t even need an exact vision for Vishkar. Maybe it could’ve just be enough if her agenda was more about expanding Vishkar’s influence instead of her own position and wealth since that actually would fit with the whole corporate villain thing they’re going for her.

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The problem is women, in this period of “modern audience” appeal, can’t actually be villains. It always has to be something men did to them to make them like that. They can’t just be evil because they’re a bad person. I feel this modern age of writing makes it so if you artificially make a character female, they can’t have any substance other than being a “strong independent woman”. But that is really toxic. Not all women are like that. Having every female character be a girlboss removes a load of depth that can be explored elsewhere. You can be weak. You can be vulnerable. Those make great characters.

But I don’t think overwatch has caught on that their storytelling style is a dying breed.

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You mean they can’t be villains if they have way too much depth. Many people just seem to tend to mistake having depth with being tragic or sympathetic. But for what it’s worth I’d rather a female villain be tragic or sympathetic than be devoid of any depth whatsoever besides just being evil. Doesn’t mean they absolutely need to have redemption arcs but at least make their defeats less undignified or something. And no it doesn’t have to simply be about men hurting them. Just make them dissatisfied with the system or something and want to change that.

If anything I’d say they’re not allowed to be evil for any other reason than simply being a bad person. They’re not allowed to have such complex and compelling motivations like Doomfist and Ramattra are. All the emphasis is put to just being evil for evil’s sake. Like if anything I think male villains are the ones not allowed to just be bad people compared to female villains. Like they’re actually making Ramattra way too sympathetic if you ask me.

I am not against the female characters not being perfect or flawless either but like most of the time their imperfections and flaws are often shaped to diminish their character rather than actually make them more compelling while with male characters it’s often the opposite.

Like I said at the beginning the problem with the female villains is not their lack of evil but rather their lack of depth.

You know, i’d love a few villain ideas to be explored…

I WANT DOOMFISTS GP / DOCTOR!!! I wanna see some freakish female riddled with cybernetics and taking doomfists philosophy to the absolute limit and pushing her body to it’s limits with mechanical attachments and upgrades!

A remnant of Anubis loaded into some freakish omnic abomination that spawns absolute mechanical nightmares in a big swarm!

And most importantly… Jetpack Cat revealed to be a Talon secret operative and reworked into a slow flying mecha kitty, MEKA Squad inspired with quad rocket launchers!

Idk. Maybe a story should only be judged when it is over. Maybe there will be more to her.
Sadly, OW’s plot moved at snail’s pace the past years.

I agree. I’m saying they don’t have depth because they aren’t allowed to have any other depth than strong independent woman that had a bad upbringing. We need more cruella devils.

Or rather we need more Moira O’Deorains.

Well that’s fair. People do seem to anticipate her downfall way too quickly. But I think that’s yet another problem with female villains.

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Indeed.

(20 characters)

You know maybe the “tragic and sympathetic/a man did something to her” angle is simply the other end of the problem. Either they’re way too evil to be that compelling or they’re simply not evil enough to not have a redemption arc.

It’s not just that, as Domina is also constantly being shown up by everyone around her.

She is not naturally gifted, and even with hard work finds her self needing to rely on other technology just to still perform worse then Sym or LW at making Hard light structures.

And is constantly reminded of not only her lack of skill, that people prefer others to her, that she her self isn’t as invested in her own culture as others around her (she spent a large chunk of her life in brit), and of her Nepo baby status. As is basically in an endless of loop of needing to proof and validate her self, while needing to to hide behind her wealth and status to cover for her.


Anything she does with her own hands tends to be simple, or even clumsy looking animation wise. Covered up by the fact that her robot arms do all the major complex work for her. As just as an example.

While her paneled barrier is do to the fact she isn’t able to connect them together into one larger barrier.

Something that not only can sym do, but do so at a scale that rivals entire zipcodes.

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Junker Queen just wants to hit things with an axe.

So she hits things with an axe.

Ahhh. I love Dez.

I… completely disagree :sob: They actually did a good job at fleshing out all of these characters. Like, they explicitly don’t only center Shion’s villainy around Mizuki. They do show that it’s part of her obsession with him and that she’s not exclusively using him as a punching bag. You’re just going to see more interactions in game about him because she’s obsessed with the control she has over him and he’s a playable character that other characters know.

I think Blizzard fails their female characters plenty across all their games, but picking out these characters is just a little funny to me.

Well I can’t really speak for Blizzard’s other games but when it comes to Overwatch I’m inclined to agree.

But the specific grievances I have with Vendetta, Domina and Shion is that they’re not allowed to really be that threatening in a particularly significant way because of how shallowly they are being written.

Vendetta simply desires power all for herself but lacks any personal ideology that makes her particularly threatening compared to Doomfist and is expected to eventually fall by her own hubris, while Doomfist gets to set his own aside and become even formidable threat than he already was.

Domina is a vain superficial fraud who could crumble extremely easily should anyone ever learn the truth about her. Like since she was meant to be so insecure about her own skills and extremely resentful for other architech for their “skill” maybe they should’ve made her pointing out other peoples flaws and mistakes to cover up her own since she was actually supposed to be a shrewd at debate and negotiation but instead her superficiality makes her so easily to be put down by others.

And while Shion’s story was far better structured than the last two, her arc is reduced to the “evil stepmother” trope where the whole focus was Mizuki getting over his fear instead of her actually imposing her will on Japan and being an antagonist to Kiriko instead. Because Mizuki in itself just feels like such a wasted character slot and is actually undermining both Kiriko and Shion’s arcs.

All three were written to be destined to fail the moment they were introduced. Vendetta hardly maintains her vision of dominance and loyalty while Doomfist is making his return stronger than ever, Domina’s empire crumbles the moment anyone learns the truth about her “natural talent” or connections to Talon and Lucio again rebels against them in Rio and Shion immediately lost both Mizuki AND Toshiro thus leaving the Hashimoto completely vulnerable to the Yokai.

Vendetta is scheming at the moment, and did merc doom at the start of the season.

That and she did in fact immediately waged war on effectively world, and in the latest narrative beat is planning on effectively nuking a continent via some sort of gravity distortion ~ emp bomb fusion thing. A enhanced super soldier serum replacement, and whatever Shion stole.

While also making allies, black mailing others to her will, or pushing factions like the Junkers into action to rather scary results.

And despite being driven by vengence and reclaiming what she deems is rightfully hers, she isn’t blinded by such emotions. As in she didn’t immediately try to kill Moria, or isn’t pushing for reapers head even when he was the one that killed her father.


Shion doesn’t have a lot narrative at the moment, so ya she needs development.


While the point of Domina is that ya she is pretty pathetic, and gets black mailed literally in her first appearance. And is stuck in a hell of her own making.

So that is Doom’s plot, except replace ye (Vengence and reclaiming what she beleives is rightfully her’s) with (we have to make humanity stronger). And fell from power (pun) because he underestimated Vendetta.

Something his last comic appearance pointed out, and doubled down on not making the same mistakes as his predecessor. As in he fell into the same trappings, and is now moving forward from such.

Well it’s certainly implied that her plans will almost immediately backfire on her. Like how the serum will actually not have zero risk when she uses it on herself. Also since Vendetta is seemingly going to use Sigma to empower the stolen emp it’s also implied he will eventually use his powers against her for forcing him into confinement.
Moira did state that Vendetta has “her father’s ambition but far less patience” and that hoarding the serum’s power for herself is “a predictable move for one so fixated on a crown”.

It’s also implied that noone actually is loyal to her and are just siding with her out of benefit or fear and would crawl right back to Doomfists side once he returns.

And that’s actually another problem with her. Why did they have to name her Vendetta specifically when she was already going to be “Lupa” or “La Lupa”? Even “Domina” would’ve fitted her far better while Vaira could’ve gotten something inspired from Hindu mythology like Lakshmi or Vishnu.

Sigh… Well I suppose I just have to accept that. But I still expected a lot more from a Vishkar villain considering the whole buildup we got from Symmetra, Lucio and Lifeweaver’s lores.
Although I think it would’ve been enough if her agenda was to simply just push Vishkar’s influence at any cost specifically instead of just her own while She could still be at the center of it all.

Well that one’s fair but I’m not sure how much she can do without Mizuki at her side or Toshiro supplying the Hashimoto with Anima weapons.

Well the point of all that was for him to learn from his mistakes. And it does actually go well with his whole philosophy.

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Too long, didn´t read the whole thing. But I read enough to understand, that you don´t really know lore of older heroes of OW. Ashe has great backstory, Widow has great backstory - probably the worst fate of all heroes ever made (Mizuki is a competition in this one). Moira? Everything is interesting about Moira and her involvment - she was involved in creating of at least three other “cursed” heroes.
OW heroes in OW1 had a very strong storytelling - that´s what made this game unique above any other shooter.
Maybe you are right about newest heroes - most of them are hasetly made without proper backstory.