You didn’t quote what I said about that at all, did you? Why bother responding then? I said
Of course “if there’s ENEMIES in your back line”, like a significant amount of enemies. Because in that case, as you said, I’m not making space at all. I know this.
I’m talking about if a Genji is flanking a support or something, as I suggest before. Don’t quote me if you don’t want to respond to me.
What is Rein’s barrier going to do to a Genji flanking an Ana in the backline?
This idea that 1 role is meant to peel for supports is just dumb. Its not just role dependent but also hero dependent.
The best support peeler is his other support, lets get this straight. No one will peel for ana like kiriko, was the same in OW1 thats why Brig-Zen existed.
Both dps and tank can peel, depending on the situation, the heroes picked and the hero match up. If Im on reaper and currently Im close to my backline as monkey dives? I can peel. If a rein tries to rush my supports and Im on orisa? Can definitely peel.
The key is to understand the comp and the hero matchups AT THE MOMENT, and learn what is the win condition for u to win.
You are assuming you have two non-flanking friendly DPS. Chances are high you will have at least one. We are talking about a scenario in which your friendly DPS are not peeling for whatever reason. So they are probably two flankers, yes? Or they are dead all the time and the healers can’t heal them because they are also being harrassed, which means multiple enemies in your backline.
If at any point in time the enemy tank gets past you especially, you need to turn around.
Your healers cannot heal you if they are dead. It is that simple. Better to give up 20 meters, save your healers, then take the 20 meters back because the enemy has lost whatever teammates are in your backline.
If it is a solitary Genji and you have two flanking DPS on your team, they are NOT going to come back to peel for the healers if they haven’t already been doing so. You have to take this into account and adjust. I repeat that your healers cannot heal you if they can’t stay alive, or if they are being chased around so much that they die trying to get to you.
He said barrier and melee.
Rein has to hit Genji once to make him run away. Get close enough to Ana that Genji is dead if he tries anything or you have your barrier for his shots. He will have to leave or find another target because he’s useless standing there throwing shuriken at your shield.
Me I’d just smack him. 
Well for starters if you your not a berserker rein and dive hard your supports should be relatively close to you, you dive when your backline is safe 1st more of playing it by ear
It’s always a judgement call. As Rein if the enemy tank dives over my head to our back line then I may well turn around and use charge to go kill them. Hopefully my DPS were not overextended and can survive for a few moments without me, and we can take back the ground we lost afterwards. If the enemy team is dive-heavy, then you need to take that into account in your positioning so that you have the option to peel. If both tanks are just diving the back line, the game devolves into chaos, and there’s no telling who’s going to win.
See the thing a lot of people don’t get about tanking… is a lot of the time, if you even take 1 second of attention off of whats infront of you… YOU DIE. period. and it only gets ded faster as you climb.
The answer is identifying that it a back line problem and staging a plan where everyone knows what their job is.
In high ranks, everyone but the tank is normally close-ish and it’s everyone but the tank who looks. 4 people shooting should solve that very quick without needing your front line to die for it. You just play safe to keep the enemy from collapsing on you team.
as a healer main, i just solve my own problem, i’ll ult combo and verbally say I AM SWITCHING SO YOU CAN ALL FOCUS, profiteroles has switched to Moira/Kiki. POOF now no one needs worry and can do their job.
I don’t really think you can, best you can do is make sure when your playing tank that you are playing in a spot where you supports have cover and are able to heal
I am not. I explicitly said “one damage hero helping one support.”
I know you’re assuming one’s flanking instead of damaging the front line, but regardless, I’m aware that there’s more than one Damage hero that’s going to be doing something on the field. I wonder why this is your second response to me, but you don’t want to respond to what I’m saying.
OH my god. Do you think that I’m not going to be dueling the tank for any reason?
No, what’s simple is that you think I’m wrong, but you dont seem to actually understand a single thing I’ve written.
That’s not true. I don’t think I’ve seen a single game where Ana was close enough to Rein that his shield was adequate peels for her. Unless she specifically had to run from the backline to the front line.
Also, remember that this is Overwatch 2. I’m not a berserker Rein, but defenses have been egregiously slashed with more emphasis on offense in the game for all characters. Chances are, I am going to be smacking people with my hammer more often than not. Not because I want to, but because that’s what this community decided qualified as “tanking”.
That’s what I’m saying. Only I’m also factoring in, well, reality. How is Reinhardt going to get into the backline fast enough to protect the supports? His charge isn’t that fast; I think the supports might very well be killed by a flanker before he gets from the front to the back.
Then the support and dps should be up where your tank is.
So even in OW1, it was never the tanks job to peel for support, it was always all 4 dps and healers job to shoot the problem.
People conflated DVa being the peel tank (not all tanks) with its the tanks job… yes hook can help, or a bubble, off-tank monkey maybe, but DVA with her boosters and DM was the only one who could really save someone.
TTK is low in OW, you got 1-2 seconds for them to live, once combat is committed it takes time like you said, factor in human reaction… like the rest of the team should already be there…
it’s just easier to blame the tank than switch off a failing ana…
your job as rien is to take armor damage, shield or take cover to get healed, block key abilities and never have your shield break unless they force it. swing and free shatters are nice.
rien is strong in tight places and using corners.
It’s better for a tank to go on the offensive with the DPS.
Supports are forced to peel each other and/or have great self-peel.
So in this new paradigm out of Moira, Mercy, Brig… Moira is the best pick.
Out of Bap, Ana and Kiriko… Kiriko or Ana is the best pick depending on preference.
Zen and Lucio aren’t generalist picks and are only used if they are the best tool for a specific comp or strategy. Zen’s has horrible self-peel in OW2, so it was no surprise that he needed a Brig pocket in Joats to peel him.
Then thats the ana’s fault, esspecially when there are flankers gunning your back line, if that is the cause and your anna you at least need the buddy system and dont sit by yourself
I dont think you can do much more. The reality is that its the job of the DPS now to peel. The tank has to stay in the front and apply pressure. Because they are mostly close and midrange based, they have not the freedom to help the supports, because it would do more harm than good.
So the DPS have to peel and the tank has to see when they are not able to do their job anymore because of less or none healing. Its very hard to see for all roles. Especially the DPS has now a team job and oh boy that will take time to process for them.
I have but perhaps I didn’t articulate it as well as I could have.
I am saying that if you have a Genji flanking your backline and your long-range DPS (if you have one) isn’t peeling for your healer, then there must be a reason. Either he’s dead or isn’t good enough or isn’t even there. At that point, you have to step in if your other DPS isn’t or can’t or whatever. Your other choice is to let your healer die, at which point they aren’t healing you and you’re going to die anyway.
If your DPS isn’t good enough to contest the flanker, they aren’t going to magically become good enough to contest them.
My you here is a general “you” as in “tank players” not you, personally.
No, I fully understand it. I am pointing out that there are instances where you DO have to help peel as a tank because for one reason or another it isn’t getting done and your choices are help or die. You can only control what YOU do in any given match, not your teammates.
I agree. The responsibility has largely been moved to DPS. Tanks can still peel when convenient or necessary, but it’s not their top priority now.
It really depends on what you’re peeling for. If it’s a Winston dropping in, the tank should absolutely turn around and deal with it. Someone like Genji, only if you’re not occupied on the front.
When flankers are harassing your supports behind you, it your job as the MAIN TANKTM to play the role of your former Off-tank (yes, yes I know, that community nickname for the set of tanks that Blizzard never wanted to “officially” acknowledge existed or whose purpose was a legitimately healthy facet of the more complex gameplay that was Overwatch 1).
The means The Front Line has to start stepping backwards. Yes, you read that right: stop pressing that W key, start pressing S instead; perhaps even turn yourself around 180 degrees. (I know, I know: it goes counter to all that now worthless advice from every whiny DPS constantly yelled at you to do every time you ever paused or second-guessed moving ahead of that choke). As the your team’s only tank (and their major source of power), it has become your job to outright turn the entire frontal assault team around and focus your might on those little buzzkill flankers harassing your back line. Get on voice comms, start pinging targets, and murder those annoying those little pesks! Then you get all the love and adoration from your supports. Otherwise, if you don’t, they’ll die. Then your team dies around you. Repeat this a few times, and people will start trickling in around you. Nothing dies except your teammates. The object remains seemingly forever out of reach. You get mad. People start yelling. Some start leaving. Reports go flying randomly. It becomes just a mess. An absolute circus, to put it nicely.
Remember to re-orient the entire assault team forward again to resume pushing back and recover whatever ground you lost while screwing around with that little Tracer or Genji (who by the way, are now respawning and making their way towards your back line yet again 
).
The only tanks that can remain in the frontline and also peel reliably are Zarya and maybe D.va if the support isn’t too far away. But because supports weren’t probably upgraded for OW2, a lot of them struggle to keep themselves alive outside of Lucio/Kiriko/Moira. Blizzard did say they were directly looking at improving this aspect of supports though, so hopefully the problem will be lessened if they don’t completely drop the ball.
Asking DPS to peel is a big stretch. Even T500 DPS don’t peel, because its so much easier for them to just dive the enemy supports instead. In the rare chances where they do peel, the support will usually die anyways. It’s just a better option to let supports have stronger kits to hold their own, as it makes them more fun to play than they are now. Yes, it’ll make some bad players upset that they can’t get easy kills anymore, but it should have never been that way to begin with.
I think yes, the general approach should be that the frontline and the backline aren’t too far apart. Obviously this is a lot less feasible with some tanks than with others.
And if you’re gonna do it, you have to do it without getting crushed from the front. Again this is kinda tricky, but hey, perhaps you even have flankers of your own, distracting them.
Right. If the tank turns around, and goes to the backline then the front line collapses and you give up map control. It might sometimes be the right call to give up some space for resources, but often you should just trust the DPS and support players to repel the flanker. I’d say most of the time the tank peeling isn’t the right call.