For sufficiently active players, and in cases where there is not decay, matchmaking based on SR would create the exact same outcome as matchmaking based on MMR. The reasons, as stated in the lovely guide for using MMR is because it allows them to make adjustments that are unpleasant for players to see that more accurately reflect the information gathered about that players’ skill.
MMR is hidden to handle people with new accounts and to adjust them quickly to the right matches without people screaming about the exact details.
Finding fair matches results in a 50% win rate. It is this fact that you cannot accept.
Surely at your level of skill, you could look at that match replay and find the actual reasons for the loss, possibly even things that you personally did. But individual matches aren’t an argument against the matchmaker working. The matchmaker works because at the end of the day, people end up with a 50% win rate.
I do, but you do not. The TEAMS are constructed evenly from the pool of available players queued at the same time. If SR was used it would have the same outcome as using MMR. The higher your rank above gold / plat, the larger the variation of MMR / SR in a match due to the restricted number of players queued at a given time.
The 50% win chance is evaluated at the team level comparing the composition of team A to team B using the MMR of all the players. The players have as an outcome over time of approaching a 50% win rate because all their matches are balanced as well as possible.
What I’m interpreting here is that you’re an elitist. You think that the fact you have a very high level of skill at this game means you should be put in games where you get to flex on people and demonstrate how awesome you are. The matchmaker puts you in games where each team is balanced against each other, and every game is a struggle. I’m sorry that you need to make others feel bad in order to feel good about yourself.
At this point I claim you are a bot and not a real person.
You still did not understand what competitive means.
Next step is that you will try to defend skillbased MM in public casual play modes.
If you are a real person I understand why you are defending a system like this because its made for players like you. You want to believe that your amazing bronze to gold climb was your success and that the game you like is a fair competitive experience. But sorry its not and if you dont understand why those systems are problematic you are absolutely lost.
I am not an elitist. I am not even „proud“ of my peak. I know that my mechanical skill is higher than probably 98% of the playerbase but I play fps games since 20 years.
But SR peak in a system like that? You dont even know if you deserve the win or deserve the lose and thats the problem.
But I do believe that there is a huge difference between bronze hardstuck players, plats and someone climbing on a fresh account in 15 levels on level 40 to 4k sr.
But in fair designed matches? Nope not even close.
5 in 1000 by that math. 50/1000 = 5/100 = 5%, not 0.5%.
I don’t know where you get that number from though. The last we know, Bronze as a rank is 8% of the 2018 player base but I’ve never seen population data more specific than whole-rank percentages. (We don’t and won’t have newer data unless Blizzard releases it, since the advent of private profiles means whole-playerbase data cannot be scraped).
I may have the specific values wrong, but what I’m getting at is that because we know that MMR is based on statistics and -3 means 3 standard deviations away from the mean, we can infer that being below -3 should mean you are in a really small minority of the population. From -1 to +1 contains 68%; from -2 to +2 contains 93%; from -3 to +3 contains 97%. Since those ranges are centered at the mean, it means we should divide by two when we are considering only one edge, so someone with an MMR below -3, they have MMRs lower than 98.5% of the population.
That is all math and it’s ok if you don’t want to get into the statistics; the problem here is the statistics let us make some well supported claims. For example, if I’m at <500 SR and my games consist of teammates who all seem to be worse than me, there are so many more players of higher skill that could have been selected to be on my team, you start to wonder if your own MMR is so much higher than your SR that maybe the Blizzard MatchMaker™ is expected you to carry your potato teammates. Closer to the mean (think Gold / Plat) this makes more sense as there are a larger number of players that could have a wide range of skills who happened to queue when you did. At the lower extreme, it’s harder to support that idea. As a <500, I realized I am probably always the potato and am dragging down my team, just from the simple math behind MMR / SR. I wasn’t suspicious until my teammates started playing so much worse than me that it couldn’t be a coincidence. I figured that something I had done had convinced the matchmaker that I’m so much better that I should be the one carrying my <500 team or it was placing me with players who were throwing.
This led me to the forums and these types of discussions. The uncomfortable truth is, if the matches are made specifically to make them ‘fair’ (as in both teams have a 50/50 chance of winning) then me winning or losing comes down to chance and becomes a form of gambling.
I’m not certain you’ve claimed what you want other than “random based on SR” which would basically be exactly what it is, unless you think that it’s “unfair” to try to balance the SR between the two teams in the match.
Maybe you could specify exactly what you think is broken about a system that actually achieves fair matches for everyone to the extent that people have a 50% win rate.
Why is a 50% win rate evidence of badness? Who should have greater than 50% win rates, and at whose expense should those be?
Isn’t this evidence that the MMR system is working? It’s defining the skill of a player and trying to give them matches based on their MMR instead of SR? Then, if they keep winning it keeps sending them higher?
You haven’t made your position clear.
My position is that the way the system works is well documented by the guide, and that it really does work like the guide says, and it achieves the stated aims of the developers.
Yes, but we don’t know exactly where -3 is, just that it is ‘low bronze’. Reasonable candidates if we wanted to set a line for where ‘low Bronze’ starts are like 1000SR, 750SR, or 500SR … but those are dramatically different places to say ‘only 1.5% of the population is below this line’.
But it’s not necessarily even at a ‘user-friendly’ level, it could just as easily be at 683SR (or any other arbitrary low number) because that’s just where a formula stretching Standard Deviations into a 5000 point range happened to put -3.
In short, we just don’t have sufficient data to make a precise calculation… but it’s certainly correct to say that <500 is a very small population.
It’s placing you with players who are throwing. Also with players who are so drunk and/or stoned that they are effectively throwing. But not because of anything you did, other than losing rank.
The bottom of Bronze is where drunks naturally fall to and where smurfs most like to hang out. (Well, the smurfs are also drunk and/or stoned a lot of the time… one big reason for smurfing is to have something to do when too impaired to play at your proper level).
If you think about it, the people at the very bottom of the ladder would always be outmatched, because they cannot fall any lower and continue to match into the same level despite having a <50% win rate.
Similarly, at the very top of the ladder, there’s no higher to go and so those players should always be at an advantage.
And, in fact, that is actually what we see. A skew off of 50% actually distributes evenly thorough the ladder, as can be seen by examining hero win rates that are across the board consistently lowest in Bronze and highest in Grand Master in an even gradient across the ranks.
The goal of the matchmaker is two equally skilled teams with equal chances of winning, but the practice is imperfect. And since there is no such thing as a forced 50% winrate system, those imperfections show up statistically.
Check my overbuff. I linked it in my other thread. I also have youtube channel.
Okay. Another one without braincells.
Then believe blizzard and suck balls.
Well you are either a 13 years old kid that believes in santa claus or a 40 years old boomer.
Oh so therefore you dont play CoD there is no sbmm. Sure. Nice argument. Let me guess. Ow was „your first fps game“?
Dude have you watched how online gaming went in the last years? xD
There is SBMM and MM rigging in almost ALL bigger online games.
It is proven in cod and apex for example. In Fifa they are using „momentum“ to rigg the game. It is confirmed by Activision, EA and others.
And you still think your holy grail OW is free from all that stuff? Blizzard = Activision and you still think they rigg CoD but not your Overwatch? You are simply lost but I cant even blame you. Maybe you somehow still have fun with the game in your dumpster elo and dont want to wake up.
Blizzard fanboy arguments be like: „but but … i climbed from 1700-2500 :o“
Wtf dude xD you can climb to at LEAST diamond with torb turret only xD
And yeah surefour is wrong too of course. Or course.
Edit:
Overbuff:
Icamefromswitch
Lyzest
Mert#22717
Ps5 and Pc. I used to play on both platforms.
If you dont believe this accounts are mine I can make a yt video just for you.
Or go on twitch and ask JULEZOW. She was my coach.
Ok so because some game are rigged, all games are?
Not sure what do you mean by that. I play mostly on alts in ranks i want to play. Your toxic trashtalking really doesnt affect me so dont waste time with rank shaming Mr. Hidden profile. I also achieved everything i wanted in ow regarding the ranks in past.
I would like to clarify one thing. I dont know if surefour talked about his rank or in general. If he was talking about game being rigged in his elo, then i cant say anything about it as i dont have experience from there.
Also you didnt explain how exactly rigged it should be. Since players are climbing thousands of SR i dont really see the rigging some talk about. So please clarify what is rigging for you.
About 50% forced winrate. I had 100% winrate on one of my alts from bronze to plat. How is it possible with forced 50% winrate?
Omg… and I made a bronze to top500 in season 19 ended up with 72% winrate from 1000 SR to 3922 SR and I still say it is rigged.
Of course you can climb. I never said that no one can climb.
The thing is that the MM is trying to make games „as hard as possible“.
You dont have to beat other players in certain elos. You have to beat the matchmaker.
I explain it one last time. If you dont understand then you simply never learned in your life what „competitive“ and „rigged“ means in ANY form.
The „competitive“ „ladder“ (yes I split those words) is rigged from Blizzard Activision.
There is a „forced 50% winrate“ in your matches and „MMR walls“.
All those works with players „hidden mmr“ see it as a second rank you just cant see.
SR are useless and doesnt mean anything because your „true rank“ is your hidden mmr.
And this MMR matchmaking with forced 50% winrate is used in ALL modes in OW. Yes even in modes like quickplay and quickplay classic.
How does it work? Well imagine you have 3 different players. Lets say they are dps mains. All of them are on 3.000 SR diamond.
But 1 of them is a low mmr player, 1 of them a mid mmr player and 1 of them a high mmr player. (Btw alone this shows that the system failed)
Lets say mmr looks like this:
-3, -2, -1, 0, +1, +2, +3.
The -3 Diamond dps on 3000 SR got boosted by the matchmaking to this SR but he doesnt belong there.
The 0 Diamond dps on 3000 SR is probably hardstuck and will stuck there forever because he cant escape the matchmaking algorithm and from the system perspective he is where he belongs.
The +3 Diamond Dps is way too good for this elo. But he gets punished by forced 50% winrate getting -3 mmr players in his team he has to carry against a full team of +1 mmr players for example.
Forced 50% winrate does NOT mean, that all matches have 50:50 chance for both teams. It means that if you have like 65-90% winrate after 20-30 matches you will get matches that are like unwinnable to push you down.
And yes its the truth.
The matchmaker is NOT random. You CANT play against and with any players around your SR. They are mathematically chosen by hidden mmr to create rigged matches.
The system punishes mostly high mmr players because they have ZERO profit from this system. They are the ones that suffer.
Low MMr players have a lot of profit from this system because many players would end up with a winrate like 20-30% but somehow even the worst players get pushed up close to 50% winrate.
If the system would work it would not be possible to have 3 different players on SAME SR but one of them is trash one of them plays „okay“ for his elo and one of them is way better than the other too.
You can have 3 different tracer mains on 3000 SR. 1 bad 1 average and 1 extremely good. And thats a failed system.
It boosts bad players, hold average players down and PUNISH good players with the „carry role“ since you are chosen as the tryhard from the system.
The main problem why you probably won’t recognize this is simply because you are one of the first 2 category players.
Matchmaker is preferably trying to make games which are 50/50 so both teams have 50% chance to win for team. Your place in system is based on your skill. Matchmaker doesnt force you to have 50% winrate, you are doing this.
Your example is nonsense. You cant have - - 3 or +3 player in same match. If you would have - 3 on 3000 SR account, you would be placed in bronze games. You have no clue what you talk about honestly. Yes bronze player can buy diamond account with diamond MMR, but he is still 0 for matchmaker, matchmaker doesnt know its - 3 player.
Lol, saying this doesnt make it true.
Wrong, majority of games is around your SR/MMR. Only those on the edges on top or in low bronze have bigger range of skill in their games cause by small player pool in those ranks. These are only ones who could probably say that some of their games are rigged.
Lol, sure because its mostly lower ranked players picked for overwatch league right?
Matchmaker is not Oracle. It doesnt know you have bad day, bought account, or if you are manipulating your rank. Game allow to group up so friends can play together so yeah, you wont have always all players in your games at exact same elo who belong there. It will never be perfect.
Bad players might be boosted in same games by good team mates sure, but dont have some kind of better chance of climbing than average players. Bad players are dropping down in ranks actualy. Average players are hold down by their skill in their rank, not by matchmaker. If you are better than others you will climb. Yes it is not easy i get that, it should not be easy so stop crying about it.
Your trashtalking and rank shaming others show what kind of person you are. Its pointless to continue with discussion as you are unable to understand and unwilling to actualy listen others. So have fun vomiting the rigged mm nonsense here on forums, i am done here.
Idk which kind of tampering you talk about because his example and other stuff was obviously nonsense as he talked about diamond player having - 3 MMR.
Profesional sport isnt random picking of your team mates, you cant compare it. Also you dont have hidden skill based rank in sport.
Is overwatch league rigged? If not, why do you want to compare overwatch matchmaking with professional sport when owl is close to it as possible.
