Wait… what? 
2 Likes
So much fun for ashe players after experimental. And genji when he doesn’t have to deal with sigma nor brig anymore.
I wonder if the halt change is a nerf to halt+hook rather than meant to be a direct nerf to Orisa because of the hog buff to his damage. Also halt+rock is effectively nerfed as another nerf to Orisa+Sig.
Yes it makes Orisa weaker at higher ranks that can actually coordinate these things, but at lower ranks I’m not sure the halt change will make much difference. My bet is it goes through as 5m instead of 4m.
No he wouldn’t. Zarya for 1 would walk all over him wtihout his shield. It’s his only protection against her melting him. He also uses his shield to block damage from different directions from where he is focused - for example when trying to deal with a Rein coming in you may shield the DPS off to 1 side. KG will do nothing for many situations that shield helps with now. He also uses his shield to prevent healing in a target that he is fighting and without that he will lose a lot more of those fights.
Without his shield, reducing the CD on KG will do little to help him. He will be completely useless as a tank.
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Sigma is already a 100% off-tank. He’s played with Rein (a main tank), Orisa (a main tank) and Winston (a main tank). He isn’t played with any of the off-tanks anywhere above plat.
Well no. Orisa was the main tank, Sigma was the off-tank. It’s more than just a matter of whether a tank has a shield or not. Orisa determines her team’s positioning with her static shield, and her team’s target focus with her pull. That’s a main tank. Sigma is flexible, he moves around and repositions constantly, watches flanks, peels for his backline. That’s an off-tank.
But I agree, this last set of nerfs to Orisa is… rough. I think Orisa + Sigma will still be viable, but probably outclassed by Reinhardt + Sigma, and I’m pretty much 100% sure Orisa will see no play in any composition other than that. Orisa + Roadhog was in a rough spot even before this experimental card, if this goes live I think it will be a complete throw to play Orisa without a second shield tank.
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… It’s true?
Orisa is a main tank, I’m sure you agree with that, right?
But so is Hammond. “Main tank” doesn’t mean “tank with a shield”, you have to get out of that mindset.
Just like any main tank, he draws most of the resources from the enemy team when played correctly, and he determines his team’s positioning, timing, and target focus. Orisa determines positioning by where she places her shield, and target focus with her Pull. Hammond determines positioning by making clear where he plans to engage, so his team can move into positions to support him, and he determines target focus and timing by actually engaging. That’s a main tank. He works exactly like Winston in that regard. Just because he doesn’t have a shield, that doesn’t make him an off-tank. He’s a main tank for mobile or long-range compositions.
Compare those things to a tank like D.va or Zarya. Zarya can’t really determine her team’s positioning, because she has no mobility and no defensive utility, the enemy can just walk away if you’re walking towards them, or they can shoot you before you get close. D.va can’t really start engagements either, because her personal defensive utility is too low, and her mobility is too low.
But you know what both those tanks have? Great supportive abilities. D.va has her Matrix, Zarya has her Bubbles. They can both support the tank that’s better at engaging and doesn’t have such utility himself (aka, the main tank), and they can peel for their backline with their supportive abilities, which main tanks generally speaking can’t do. That’s an off-tank. If a Doomfist jumps your Zenyatta, what’s a Hammond going to do? Even if he’s next to the Zen, which he shouldn’t be, because he can’t make any space in his own backline, so the enemy can just walk at you, at best he’s going to spray some bullets at the Doomfist. Meanwhile, both Zarya, as well as D.va, can easily save the Zen with a single press of a button. 
You want yet another piece of evidence that Hammond is a main tank? Look at who he’s paired with in pro play. He’s paired with Zarya, D.va and sometimes Sigma. All off-tanks. He’s never paired with Reinhardt or Orisa, and not even Winston, despite the similarity in their playstyles.
The reason main tanks are paired with off tanks is because one has great ways to make space and control the tempo of the fight, as well as control the focus of the enemy frontline (Orisa by putting down a shield and Hammond by engaging them and taking their attention, displacing them, or straight up killing them if they ignore him), and the other has great ways to support the other tank and protect their team from flankers.
That’s what makes a tank a main tank or off-tank, and Hammond very clearly falls into the “main tank” category. He’s the closest to being a hybrid of all the tanks in the game, but he’s still very much a main tank, regardless of whether or not he has a shield. Okay?
One thing that’s worth mentioning though, is that he’s often not played like a main tank is supposed to be played in lower ranks, because Hammond players there don’t necessarily understand how to make space, and his team often isn’t paying enough attention to actually focus the same targets or peel for him.
3 Likes
I just love it how they are battling double barrier by making sure that barriers will be weak af in any other environment except double barrier. I.e. Who would want Sigma or Orisa as their only barrier tank? More likely that they’ll be paired with Rein (Sigma at least) and Rein will be the mandatory main tank cuz he has the only “real” barrier.
3 Likes
His barrier needs to recharge; Orisa’s doesn’t.
I can see Orisa being paired with Rein even more than she is now (which is a fait bit, tbh.)
Pull, window, fire strike is arguably easier to pull off if these changes go through because of the projectile speed.
When one tank is bad, it’s bad.
When all but one or two tanks are bad, they aren’t bad, those 1 or 2 tanks are just plain too good.
So you think Rein and Winston are too good?
It makes more sense than all the others being too bad.
Let’s be real here, Rein has been on top for YEARS now without any substantial nerfs.
But I disagree with you (the OP) that Winston is the only other main tank.
Well Orisa would compete, if Sigma hadn’t been released.
Also, you’re going to say Ball aren’t you, I just know it. Sigh…
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Mmm it’s just unfortunate that hog orisa wasnt viable after the first round of tank nerfs, and it’s even worse now after the halt changes. I’ve heard from a bunch of orisa players that they like the speed, but the range reduction has made it almost useless against small, high mobility characters.
Will there even be Orisa players after the change goes live?
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Probably not honestly. I’m genuinely scared about OW2 though. I love playing hog but he’s already pretty damn bad. And they want to make all the tanks more like him? I just don’t really see the point 
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If it means making DPS one-tricks happy, sure. Tanks are bad cause they don’t die in one hit and sometimes have big nasty shields that make the whole team not die in one shot, so gotta nerf.
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Says you. I make great progress dropping the shield on the payload and then my team moves in with me.
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But won’t those same DPS still complain about Rein shield? Especially if Rein/Sigma becomes popular.
2 Likes
Sigma was always an Off Tank he just is the reverse of Hammond.
Hammond is a Main Tank who, due to his play style, CAN function as an Off Tank. But he’s not good at it.*
Sigma is an Off Tank who, due to his severely overloaded kit, CAN function as a Main Tank.
But he’s not good at it.*
*In comparison to true Off Tanks or Main Tanks.
———
The list of Main Tanks are:
Reinhardt, Winston, Wrecking Ball, Orisa.
The list of Off Tanks are:
D.Va but better in every single way Sigma, D.Va, Zarya, Roadhog.
———
Contrary to what the forums may tell you, Orisa is fine after the nerfs. If anything this opens the way to buffing her shield health now that Sigma is finally under control.
Fortify is still an incredibly strong ability.
Supercharger is still a great strategic ult for zoning or to give your team 25%(?) ult generation while its up.
———
Wrecking Ball received no nerfs.
This community would have you believe Hammond is hard to kill while spinning. Compared to Orisa’s fortify (in Masters+) that’s absolutely nothing.
40% damage reduction is still incredibly strong, especially with healing. It also counters ultimates like Sig9 or Grav combos which boosts her survivability heavily when under focus fire.
Source: Reached Grandmaster s19, consistently mid-high masters prior to that on Tank.
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