True, but balance is relative. There also didn’t used to be 3 other main healers who are capable of handing out literally twice as much single target healing as Mercy can.
I mean… it’d help. She’d need other changes as well but 60 HPs would be a start.
Now that’s just straight up false. Her play style changed dramatically when she went from Mass Resurrect to Valkyrie.
The way you maximize those abilities is completely different.
Not to mention that healing tanks wasn’t a chore like it is now, or that damage boosting is her main task. Back then she could do a bit of both, but not so much these days. I guess even in OWL, when they’ve somewhat rarely used her, have used her for primarily damage boosting and then swapped to a different (second?) healer when it’s no longer important.
Her healing has always been remotely the same, but the small differences in healing end up making huge differences in the viability of play styles.
It’s easy to discount numbers that seem small. What difference does 10 hps make? It turns out that it makes a huge difference.
Mercy with 60 hps was used as a main healer alongside a Zen. You weren’t a great tank healer, but you were adequate. Mercy with 50 hps struggles to do the same.
The 10 hps difference might not seem huge, but it adds up and really changes how the hero plays out. There’s a reason why Mercy’s win rates/pick rates dropped so dramatically after the nerf. For months before the Valkyrie buff she was consistently the worst win rate hero in every rank diamond and above. And there’s a reason why the Valkyrie buff helped her. Healing matters on Mercy. It matters a lot, as it should.
The answer to balancing her out because of the new healers isn’t give her more healing. That would create a healing power creep.
The answer would be for her to stand out from them. And she does stand out from them.
Like I’ve said before, she has the highest form of survivability and mobility in the game, giving her the consistency a team needs in healing.
If the team needs more healing, then that means it’s time to switch. Guess what? That’s fine too. I hear a lot of opinions but none actually suggest why needs more healing. Mercy’s strengths are ones that no other healer in the game possesses
Consistency and survivability are fine, but they NEED to be coupled with sufficient throughput to mean anything. Mercy would be just as consistent and survivable with 40 hps, or 30. But it would be pointless consistency and survivability.
It really should never be the case that you have to switch off of her because of low healing. That’s not how she’s designed at all. It’s fine to have to switch off of her to get better burst heals, aoe heals, defensive ults, utility, damage, focused tank healing, etc. But low throughput should not be one of those reasons.
Side note: saying this made me want to quote Ralph Waldo Emerson - “Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds” but I couldn’t fit it in the text, so I fit it in a side note.
You want my theory as to why people always ask for more healing for Mercy?
Because, in practice, her healing beam is her main source of Player Agency left after the train wreck of a rework happened… but her heal beam was never designed to be nearly her only source of Player Agency. She was supposed to be able to pop Instant Resurrect when her healing wasn’t enough. Her heal beam still isn’t impactful enough on its own… but it is on its own now. Because of that, Mercy players feel like they can’t impact the matches they’re in… so they ask for buffs to the one thing that feels kind of impactful but not impactful enough.
People are just upset that can’t face tank anymore as any hero because mercy can pocket them through anything.
Mercy is fine and people need to learn you need to find cover to be effectively healed.
Her healing output is great for 2-2-2 IMO, the only issue I keep running into are two stacks with a Mercy that prioritizes their partner over anything else, no matter what role that partner is playing.
Don’t tell me to swap off Widow,
Coolbreeze
I see what you’re saying, and of course 40hps or lower would be overkill. And I’m not saying don’t add 60hps back. I’m arguing that people think she can’t do her job.
When in reality she still can. Many people are choosing to ignore her stats in favor of their own opinions. If you’re going to argue she doesn’t have enough healing, prove it. Don’t just say people are complaining she doesn’t heal enough. How has that low healing affected her negatively? Because from the facts being presented, they’re saying otherwise.
I still have fun with Mercy, I still can get gold healing with her for the strengths I listed earlier. If you can’t capitalize on her strengths, she’s not for you.
There are lots of people saying she’s fine and they have the facts or evidence to prove it. I want to see the same for the other side and I don’t see it
That’s a bit ironic, as statistics weren’t used for the reasoning of the rework. Instead the officially stated reasons were ‘disheartening to play against’ and the supposedly common ‘hide and res’.
That’s completely different. The “hide and rez” tactic went against their vision of how Mercy should be played. The complaints were justified there because it aligned with the dev’s playstyle of Mercy.
This is a completely different scenario. People are arguing that she can’t do her job effectively not that she’s choosing not to do her job which is heal. It has nothing to do with her philosophy which is still in tact
Okay, I understand your point better now. Let me clarify that I don’t think she can’t do her job, and I don’t think she’s a bad hero at all. I play her more than any other hero by far and am successful when using her. I enjoy her more than any other hero. I also don’t think she needs large changes - only numerical tweaks.
Having said all of that, here is the gist of the argument from my point of view. I think that Mercy is most fun when played as a main healer, and that’s also the style of play that many of the Mercy players I encounter prefer. The question at hand is - how well is she doing in that role, and how can we tell?
You brought up stats (win rates, pick rates, etc.) These are undoubtedly important, but they have two drawbacks.
So what kind of evidence would be indicative of a Mercy who is struggling as a main healer? To me, there is one main statistic to consider here: how often is Mercy played alongside Ana/Moira/Bap vs. how often is she played alongside Zen/Lucio/Brig. If she is mainly played alongside Ana/Moira/Bap, this is a problem as they don’t have to be played with each other to be effective main healers.
The statistics we had before indicate that in high ranks she has to have been played most often alongside an Ana. OWL data from stage 4 is further evidence of this (and that data is before the ult charge nerf).
I also think it’s wrong to be dismissive of team mate’s complaints. Yes, people complain all the time. You can’t take it completely seriously. But tanks don’t complain about insufficient throughput for no reason. They complain because they feel uncomfortable with Mercy/off healer heals. They feel that their job becomes harder. This wasn’t always the case. Individual complaints are verbal chaff, but in aggregate they become evidence.
The data we have is more partial than the data Blizzard has. I imagine they’re able to see pairing statistics quite easily. But we do have evidence from various sources, some of which are of course at least partially anecdotal, and that evidence points to a certain ambiguity of what role Mercy’s best play style is right now.
All forum goers are just performers on a stage, with Blizzard as their imagined audience. The point of this sort of conversation is to try to let Blizzard know that there might be an issue with Mercy’s play style, and that many people prefer a main healing centered play style over a pocket centered one. It’s meant to encourage them to consider some changes to emphasize this style more.
If I’m stuck playing healer and someone complains like that, I just pull out mercy’s pistol and DPS. To h3ll with them.
Mercy’s biggest assets are her damage buff and her res. Combine the Valkyre damage buff on top of an Orisa Ult, and you have a very great advantage. Her heals are not bad, not great, but you have 2 healers on you team.
The complaints were justified because they happened to line up with the Devs? That’s not how complaints work. Ever. Anywhere.
So what is her philosophy then? Because from where I sit… it is no where near intact.
Ok let me clarify by saying that complaining is fine. But only if it has some form of merit or evidence. I personally don’t see how these particular Mercy complaints are valid.
Now the issue I have with what you said is the idea of a main healer and off healer. These are categories we as a community place. It shouldn’t matter who does what. What should matter is their effectiveness.
For example, in the traditional 2-2-2 dive Zen and Lucio were the “main healers” of that comp despite them being the “off healers” we categorize them as. That was because their strengths supplemented the team.
Even in bunker, Baptiste, Mercy, and Ana could play together despite being all “main healers.”
So to summarize, we shouldn’t see if someone is a good main healer or off healer. We should see if they can perform their role effectively. And for Mercy I believe she does. I like debating with you btw haha
You posted that quote telling us her philosophy. I can only imagine that’s what you believe in.
And yet you’ve provided no evidence as to claim why that is now not true.
As stated in the quote from Jeff, her main focus is still healing, mobility is still her second, and resurrect is not her primary focus anymore. That philosophy is in tact.
If you believe otherwise prove it. Your main point was that many people are complaining she doesn’t heal enough but you don’t have the evidence to prove if that’s the case.
I’m trying to play devil’s advocate here and being open minded but I don’t see your point of view at all.
I tend to agree with this. Main healer and off healer are somewhat artificial categories, that are largely coded references to play styles and loose archetypes. The platonic ideal of the off healer play style focuses less on healing and more on damage/utility whereas the ideal main healer play style focuses more on healing.
In practice things are messier, and it’s Okay for there to be ambiguity. Baptiste and Moira for instance can play in a more damage oriented way, or a more healing oriented way. Ana was built with dps players in minds, and can often be played in a very dps-y style.
That being said, there are some healers that don’t really straddle the line. Zen fits squarely into the off healer archetype. I think that if anyone should fit squarely into the main healer archetype, it’s Mercy. It’s the devs stated design philosophy for her, and everything about her says it. Healing is the central fantasy of Mercy play. Keeping people alive is why Mercy players are attracted to Mercy in the first place.
It’s also the play style that is most enjoyable for her. At her very best, Mercy is about making a constant stream of fast paced decisions. Where to be now, where to be next, who to beam, which beam, how to get from one place to the next, where are her predators, who is being most effective, who needs the most help, when can res be safely used, when can it be wisely used, is it time for for Valk, can I save my Rein by healing or should I save him by boosting a dps, should I stay with my team or follow Genji on his adventure, etc. etc. It’s an exciting play style that led many people to love her.
Mercy can hard pocket. It’s often effective. It’s how she’s played in OWL for instance. But it’s a very dull style of play. Unlike Ana, or Moira, or Bap, pocket Mercy is almost completely lacking in decision making and agency. It’s not the natural play style that leads many people to play her.
Here I disagree with you. I feel like this is too utilitarian. I think it does matter who does what, since this affects how the game plays out. Staying in a Pharah’s pocket might be effective, but it’s not how Mercy should play out.
The devs have the power to affect which play styles are more viable than others by tweaking numbers. If you make Ana’s darts heal for 20 then she’s forced into an off healer play style. If you decrease her damage and decrease anti heals then she’s forced into a main healer play style. Somewhere in the middle, both styles should work well. What I want is for Mercy’s main healer play style to be emphasized more. The in game evidence for that would be for her to be run more often and more successfully alongside Zen or Lucio or Brig.
It’s important for them to consider these play styles separately from in game success. They’re critical to how the game is played. In order to decide if numbers should be tweaked to favor one play style over the other, they have to understand if there is a problem and what it is. For this understanding, code words like main and off healer are important, as is the play experience that players describe.
This is true, but Bap and Ana can be played without each other, whereas Mercy seems to require their help to keep a team up.
I like debating with you as well.
That’s actually not my philosophy on what Mercy is/should be. That is merely the last time the Devs ever chimed in on their philosophy on Mercy. However if Mercy is supposed to be all about healing… nerfing her healing from 60 HPs to 50 HPs makes absolutely no sense.
My philosophy goes back to prior to the rework. At that time Mercy was the only support in the game that added nearly zero offensive threat to the game. Still is for that matter. Now… utility is ok but at the end of the day the main thing that matters is whether somebody dies or not.
Since (in practice at least) Mercy has minimal offensive contribution, her defensive contribution should be unmatched by anybody. If you want to pick the hero who goes all in on sustaining their team… that hero should be Mercy. Prior to her rework… she was that. Ana could match (ish) Mercy’s healing but Mercy had a team sustain ultimate and Ana didn’t.
Now… fast forward to the present…
Mercy’s healing beam has gotten nerfed.
Resurrect is horribly inconsistent and has a long cool down, and because of that really doesn’t add a ton to her ability to sustain her team.
Valkyrie isn’t a team sustain ult. Instead its this… weird jack of all trades master of none ultimate… which is just a terrible design for an ultimate.
Then… also Moira and Baptiste have been released. I like them a lot, but they’ve usurped Mercy’s role. Not only are their left click heals better than Mercy’s… they also have both E abilities and Q abilities that can provide their teammates with sustain and are either much more reliable or much more powerful than Resurrect and Valkyrie are. Then on top of them bringing more sustain to the team… they bring a pretty decent amount of offensive power too. It doesn’t seem right to me.
That’s my view of her… Mercy used to be the Healer who went all in on team sustain. She simply isn’t that anymore.
Yikes I realize I don’t like when I said it shouldn’t matter who does what. I was merely saying that I just want every healer to have a defined role they’re good at which I think most of them do.
I find it interesting that we seem to play mercy similarly but have different opinions as to her state.
My main issue with making Mercy better at healing is what that will do to the others. If she becomes sufficient at healing tanks, why play Moira for example? In comparison, Mercy will be able to heal tanks reasonably well while possessing high mobility and flexibility compared to Moira. I wouldn’t imagine what Mercy’s weakness would be if she became a good tank healer.
To me, Mercy thrives in a more offensive composition. It’s always been the case. In a slow paced environment she just doesn’t thrive because you need high sustain and that’s fine.
I won’t lie. I get moments where I’m frustrated where I’m not healing a tank fast enough but I don’t think it means she needs a buff. I know this part of her kit is a weakness and I either live with it or switch. A totally acceptable scenario