Hence having your feelings hurt, no matter your rank it doesnt mean your character requires skill. Expecially if your advice to climb rank is to play them specifically, you are only proving that she is in fact EZ mode.
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Pffff, no. Me Rein, me like hammer not brain.
Itās okay, Iād never expect you to say anything positive about anything. I explained my whole A Tier reasoning down further. This is also a big brain tier list, not a mechanical skill list.
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no shot you put mei and genji at the same difficulty
Edit: Oh my lanta he put doom in D tier,throw the list away
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Dva was my first real main. I started with soldier but wasnāt climbing even though I had 4 gold medals almost every game. Then I tried tank and realized I could provide so much more value to my team, save lives and still get kills. This was back in season 3 and I pretty much just one tricked dva and went from silver to diamond in 5 seasons. Once ball came out though I fell in love so Iām kinda trash at dva now lol.
And that is what makes it all the more strange, really. It is mostly based on skill floor or ceilings until your biases kick in. It is just a very strange list and your āreasoningā does not clarify much. It is just a weird topic to tackleā¦ I guess I appreciate the different thread after 420 battle pass threads and 69 dps passive threads. That being said, it seems REALLY inconsistent to the point where it reads more like a favorite to least favorite characters list.
Seems many people here havenāt seen a 9000 IQ Mei in action.
Zamn tier lists already. OW truly is back lmao
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Like the list is pretty bad but dva is quite literally the hardest tank to get full value out of
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LMAO no squirt, ball winston zarya would like to chat.
From just using your alt to get play of the game, high health, blocking almost all damage with one button and two lives in one ( A feature no other hero has).
Add in having no responsibility because you dont have a barrier, and the fact that every ethot who really cant play the game is secondary this after mercy.
I would argue that any tank takes more skill. This is also one of the characters frequently suggested to new players because of the heroes ease.
Playing bastion above diamond is honestly like Dark Souls
All 6 enemies are suddenly targeting you as priority 1 every fight, itās really hard to stay alive if you donāt have entire team babysitting you
LOL
The amount of responsibly dva has is insane. No other heros even come close. Denying ults/ Denying flankers/ Denying highground/ Eating core abilities/ Peeling for literally everyone.
Getting full value of dva is the hardest thing to do constantly.
She also has the biggest headhitbox in the game
This is what differentiates bad dvas from the good. DM is not an easy ability to use. Sure you block all damage but you only have 3 seconds and its not that forgiving tbh
Only tank that even holds a candle to dva is ball but the difference between them is immense
This was ther case back in like 2017/18. If you genuinely suggest dva to a new player now when sig/orisa and hog exist then ur setting them up for a bad time
Also Skill floor != Skill ceiling
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The better the hero, the easier it is to play, the worse the hero, the more skill and effort it takes to get value.
OPās list is all sorts of wrong, like low rank bad.
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Bastion is a 1 or 2 teamfight cheese pick, beyond that, the other team will deal with you easily.
If someone diamond and above can stick with bastion an entire match and still contribute, that is some major skill and creativity, I wouldnt even be mad.
The game engine often disagrees:
https://gfycat.com/lastingfancyhummingbird
https://gfycat.com/personalperfumedlarva
https://gfycat.com/palerequiredbluegill
https://gfycat.com/helpfulsnarlingfalcon
Mei wall is one of the most difficult skills to use, solely for the fact that getting it wrong screws your own team over, and it is much easier to do it badly.
This is my favorite description thank you. It is indeed like Dark Souls
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Letās see, one of my mains is S, with another one or 2 being a veteran of, Another main is A tier, actually 2 of them r A, Feel like Junk should be a D or C, as there r more complex things to Junk tbh. Heās easy to play, but Master? Whole nother ballgame. Same for Hanzo, easy to play, trickier when mastering em. Hanzoās a C when mastered. Also same for Bastion, but heād be more C. Sombra should also be higher tbh. She is really tricky, and rly hard to master. Yes, I keep mentioning Mastered, they r much more crazy, but like, when mastered, the big brain players can easily do some crazy things with those characters, like with Hanzo. I know some crazy things you can do with Hanzo, and I donāt mean just aiming well. I mean some crazy, bonkers stuff. Impressive things. Stuff people would consider āBig Brain.ā
I know some characters require bigger brains than you think tbh. Hanzo, if ur a good Hanzo, and a mastered one, you can use ur Sonic Arrow to trap players to get shot in the head. Walk into a room, drop the Sonic, hide, turn around, when they cross through the wall: U know what u wanna hear. (the dink) Another thing not mentioned that experienced Orisa players would do, with her Shield: A, u can throw it in the air and when the Shield spawns, the CD is shorter, and u can utilize that to be Tankier. Another thing is to launch the Shield forward with proper positioning to where you are GOING to hang out and be at. So, if Iām pushing up, Uād launch the shield Forward to where ur going to push towards. If u wanna bunker down, then itās the classic that everybody does: Drop it on the ground. Doomfist rollouts is another thing. The rollouts, preforming them, are really tricky. Some u gotta have soooo perfected, that u know what positioning u gotta be in to preform said rollout.
Iāll admit, some characters are soo straight-forward, that it rly doesnāt take a lot of brain to get value. Reaper being a solid example. Like, what in his kit makes him as hard to play or need a massive brain to compare to what is required to play Genji? Hog, tbh, is another case. I mean, u Aim with Hook as one thing. The biggest thing on him, in fact. U can turn the hook. Heal at a proper time so that ur Not feeding. Position urself properly to get the maximum dmg output of Right Clicks. Then Ult is just Use it to make space, be disruptive, obvi. Shotgun is just that: A Shotgun. Get close, do high dmg. If I miss anything for Hog, then give me a heads up. And Moira, sooo straight-forward, itās to an unbelievable degree. Like, do I even need to say anything about Moira to showcase that u donāt need a lot of brain to play her? Like, at best, the skill requirement that u can learn for Moira would be Fade Jumps, but even then, those r situational, last I checked, soooā¦ U get the jist.
Iāll just showcase my own list of what I feel is big brain and what is less so down below. If u have questions, u can fire away. Iāll explain my reasons after the list is made.
S Tier: Wrecking Ball, Tracer, Echo, D.va, Doom.
A Tier: Brig, Genji, Mei, Orisa, Reinhardt.
B Tier: Mercy, Lucio, Bap, Zen, Symmetra, Sombra.
C Tier: Ana, Cassidy, Sigma, Widow, Winston, Pharah, Bastion, Hanzo.
D Tier: Ashe, Soldier, Junkrat, Zarya, Torb.
F Tier: Moira, Roadhog, Reaper.
Reasoning, Starting with S Tier Down:
S:
WB has some of the craziest techs in the game. Techs that I can hardly preform myself. I know how to preform, like, 1 or 2 Techs, but thatās about it. And I know more, but I canāt preform em because they are sooo hard to pull off. Tracer, omg, all the kinda of things u can do with Tracer from such a simple kit: Itās incredible. The rollouts u can take, the fact u can Recall into a new position to get a kill or set urself up to get a kill, the crazy Pulse Bombs, like, for a character with ONLY Mobility and Dmg: U are a Hurricane if u play her properly. (Veteran Tracer main here) Echo, for the big thing, is her Ultimate. Itās still, in my opinion, OP, But, the fact that u have to know all the characters in the game, to properly know how to use her ult, to Know the right Copy and know exactly the gameplan of what u do with the Copy: That asks for a brain bigger than Average. And that is JUST her Ult alone. There is still more I could ramble on about the rest of her kit, but the Ult alone, I think, secures her into S Tier.
D.va has a number of reasons also, but I wanna get the dumb reason out of the way: Iām totally Biased on D.va. Iām a total D.va main. I know Iād want her high on a list like this, just from a personal level. BUT NOW FOR THE ACTUAL REASONS: D.va Bomb spots, the DM trick u can do to trick ur opponent that u turned ur DM is off, the surprise actions u can pull off as a Baby D.va when u DONāT JUMP OFF THE MAP EVERY TIME UR OUT OF MECH, The proper timing and positioning and Set-Up required to even pull off a perfect Bomb, (whether thatād be doing some measurements in the mind to position properly, or if u break some Shields 1st be4 u Bomb, or if u purposefully use the Bomb to purposefully waste enemy resources to give ur team the win, etc.) The positioning of urself in general, DO I NEED TO CONTINUE FOR D.VA? Cause I spilled a ton, that Should be enough to prove my point. I mean, I am literally doing calculations MID-MATCH to preform the perfect Ultimate! Tell me how many people u know that do That in OW?
Now, Doomfist. The one S Tier pick that didnāt copy ur List. The reason Y Doom is up this high is because it takes such a fat, massive Big Brain to be able to remember and literally memorize Every. Single. Rollout. That POSSIBLY Exists for Doomfist to Preform. I mean, I met a Doom Main a couple weeks ago that IS STILL FINDING NEW ROLL-OUTS, and is STILL experimenting with some Roll-Outs U can preform on Doomfist. I mean, That alone is insane. And u gotta memorize god-knows-how-many Combos u have to preform on Doomfist to get ur Elims and Kills and Have ur Escape Plan in-Mind, AND Deal with some rly Hard Counters like Mei, Sombra and suchā¦ Like, A Doom Main has to do soooo much, that I canāt say Doom is gonna belong to any other spot than S Tier. I legit Respect Doom Mainās skills if they can memorize soooo much and preform that stuff properly. (Mind U: Iām not a Doom Main myself. I just played the game going back to 2016 is all.)
A:
U have already done a fine-enough job explaining Brig, Mei and Genji urself. There isnāt too much more I can add onto what u have already said. But now, Y did I set Reinhardt a Tier Down? Itās because although I have seen (And preformed) some Big Brain Rein Play, like Flying Charges that end up getting perfect Pins and Kills, and some crazy 360 Shatters and 180 Shatters, and perfectly Aimed Firestrikes that do what they do best, I donāt feel like Reinhardt isnāt requiring of a Huge Brain to do what he does. He can do a lot of crazy things, but everything is straight-forward: Firestrike: Raw Longer-Ranged Dmg. Shield: Itās A Shield. Charge: U Charge Forward. Earthshatter: When the Earth shakes in an Earthquake, what do people do? They start slipping and falling from the shakings of an Earthquake. Earthshatter does practically the same. Hammer: Itās a giant Hammer. And with his Shield too, he doesnāt do too much. If anything, the craziest thing u can do with his Shield is cut off some LoS to make it harder for Supports to heal, which is all positioning. If anything, Iād say the Shield is the major reason he is held back from being S Tier, personally. The Other S-Tier picks can have crazy things u can do with basically the entire kit of the character: Rein can do crazy with all but his Shield.
Orisa is the final A Tier pick to talk about. Orisa is placed higher because of A, the Ult, which u have already talked about. Then B, the Big Brain things u can do with her Shield, which is what I have already said above, throwing shield Up to cut CD for the next Shield, and throw forward to Push. Fortify is another big thing. U can purposefully use this thing to Stop Whole Ults from effecting ur Team. I have done it myself to stop a Rein Shatter from hitting my entire Team. And ALL I DID was Press Fortify after getting in Front of the Rein on Purpose to get HIT by his Shatter to prevent it from getting anybody else. Iāve also used it to stay steady in ults like Hog, where his knockback doesnāt disrupt me, and I can just focus-fire him dead to stop him from disrupting my team further. I have used my Halts to help my team get Value, like after every1 hides from my Ally D.vaās Ult, I Halt them at the perfect moment to secure their deaths. Most of it is looking at positioning though, and even then, some of the stuff is situational, like throwing Shield up for shorter CD, (Donāt do that in a map with a Roof) Hench y she is A and not S. (Iām an Orisa main also, at least for OW, and Iām a total Brig main, and Genji too, soo I respect the A Tier for some of those picks u said)
B:
Bap, Zen and Lucio r the ones weād agree with, but my reasons are because u can do some crazy things with those picks, like the perfect IF from Bap, the memorizing the roll-outs of Lucio, after u have learned how to properly Wall Ride, and Zen being able to use the Orb marker through Walls to know information of the location of enemy/s. But, there are things they do that just isnāt enough to hit the marker of A or S. Like, Iād argue for all 3 that they all have part of the big brain requiring positioning, but then there is more there, but not a Ton More. Like, Zen needs to know combos also with his Basic Attack and Discord, etc. Hench y they r B Tier.
Mercy I sent to B Tier Y? Because she is one of the easiest Supports to play in the game. She has, I think, like, 3-4 different styles of Merci u can play. Some not ideal, but they still exist. Battle Mercy, Main Heal, Off Heal and Pocket. And ur comments on Rez also put her higher. And the GA Techs, like Superjump, and the jump forward of the player u targetted. So, like, mastering her is still tricky. But most of her Big Brain is heavily looking at her GA and Rez. Otherwise, Beams r simple enough, I almost never see players pull out the Pistol unless they r Battle Merci or pulling it out swiftly to protect themselves, and her Ult improves on everything in her kit, practically. Not much else there outside of GA and Rez for Big Brain play.
Sombra is up a Tier because I feel like there is more than meets the eye. Yeah, u can just spy on enemy team for info, but U can pull off a lot of things with Trans that nobody rly knows about. Thereās Trans Spots that make it practically impossible to find sometimes, u can just simply use it to Cleanse urself, u can use it to help you gain High Ground easier, u can trick enemy players to look one way, but show up in another, it does a lot by itself. Invisibility is something useful too if u wanna annoy the enemy with voicelines and trick em by using the Voice Line to make em look one way, but again, u can move and be somewhere else. Hack can be used in the basic way, but u can also use it as a pressuring threat to stress the enemy out to focus too much on Hack and not be aware of something else, (Normally with Reins btw) like maybe Iām holding Hack, but u gotta worry about the Tracer behind you, so itās either block the Hack but die to Tracer, or Block the Tracer, to only get Hacked and shut down by me and Tracer. I can also just be a surprise package with just raw Tracking, as nobody expects Sombras to have such good Tracking, that they can get 3-4-5K POTGs. (Me, consistently) U can also play Mind Games with EMP, to make, for example, a Lucio Hold onto Beat forever, cuz heās worried bout EMP too much. (Happens in OWL every now and then) Thereās a ton going on with Sombra there, that I feel she should at LEAST go up a Tier. She might even be deserving for A or S, but I didnāt want to push it, so I went safe and amped her up 1 Tier instead. If others feel like my B Tier Sombra doesnāt feel right after what I said, then I can adjust as required.
Symmetra, oh this one is gonna need a real explanation. Symmetra can do some mind games with TP, to summon it, then leave it be to make other THINK people will take TP instantly, but in reality, something else can be planned. U also gotta be mindful of TP Bombs, of when you should do it. (TP Bomb is all 3 Turrets being teleported by ur TP) U gotta spam Right Clicks more than u think. Her Basic Attack is something u hardly use, unless u know u can get a Big Beam. Her Walls is something u have to use Very, very cleverly, to be able to position it right, time it right, among other things at play. Basically, the Big Brain stuff is going to come off of everything except her Basic Attacks, with positioning the Turrets, Wall, and TP, and gotta know when itās the right time to use things like TP Bomb or a Trick TP, likeā¦ Thereās sooo much going into Symmetra that people donāt know, that honestly, Sym feels like sheād fit right in perfectly as a B Tier Big Brain Pick. Sheās not, like, DOOMFIST, by any means, but you still need to have a good mind of what ur doing and such to get the MAX Value off of Sym.
C:
Ana, Cassidy, Sigma, Widow, Winston, Pharah, Bastion, Hanzo. A massive list of characters that will all need explanations. U explained Cassidy by yourself already, soooā¦ Yeah. Hanzo, I kinda already explained a little bit already, Yeah, u can have Spamzo, just spam all ur shots and pray ur Kills come, but thereās more at play than Spam. U can do tricks with Sonic Arrow, u can Lunge to set urself up for some kills, Dragonstrike can, if used properly, always secure a Kill, and if u know what ur doing, Dragonstrike can just be devastating, whether itās Space-Making, or if itās a wombo combo, or even a sneaky Dragonstrike coming from sooo low that u canāt see it. Thatās Y Hanzo is C. Ana can pull off some tricky things, with a perfect Anti or a Sick Sleep Dart, but for the most part, ur relying HEAVILY on ur Aim of practically ur entire kit, sooo that is Y Ana stays here in C.
Sigma has some techs with Rock and Basic Attack, to get to certain High Ground, and u can play Main or Off Tank styles, and depending on style, changes the way u use Shield and DM. And if u use the abilities right, it can be big brain. Ult is simple enough, honestly, just use ur surrounding or Shield set-up and u can Ult fine. There isnāt a lot, and half of what I said is situational, hench C Tier. Widow is basically similar to Ana, in heavy Aim reliance, just the extra things u can do with Venom Mine and Grapple that isnāt too much there, hench C tier. Winston is heavily positioning, for the most part. And learning how to Master that Ult of his. Hench C tier for Him. B Tier heād be if it were OW2 with his new Right Click, which opens up skills of Aim requirement and Combo/s to master.
Pharah U have to master aiming the Rockets and Concussion Blast, Blast for Boops or to give urself extra mobility and knowing when to use mobility or Boop/Disruption from the Blast, and Rockets need REAL Aim and Calculations to consistently hit ur shots for consistent Direct Hits, and get a ton of Dmg/Kills done, as it is ur only Source of Dmg as Pharah. (Yes, I mean, Again, Calculating the Rockets MID-MATCH ALSO. To consistently hit ur shots as Pharah.) Also, do not forget Rocket Jumps with the mix of SHIFT. And, be aware of ur positioning cuz Hitscans r problematic, and Ultimate you just need to be REALLY Careful of using it, cuz the Wrong Barrage can mean ur Death.
BASTION is one that needs REAL EXPLANATION. The heaviest Positioning-Requirement character in the game of OW. Like, u canāt just sit there and shoot, like expected when ur in a Bunker Comp. For Flanking Bastions, YES I SAID FLANKING BASTION, you need to constantly move, constantly shoot in tiny amounts in Machine Gun, then get out and Run, maybe shoot ur poor Basic Attack, and spam Healz to surviveā¦ A weird version of Run and Gun, in a sense. For the most part, that playstyle is what makes him be rated higher in Big Brain than what u think is expected for his MAX Value.
D:
Ashe, Soldier, Junkrat, Zarya, Torb. Soldier is simple enough to understand and play, like, perfect for New Guys in Town, and for the most part, there isnāt a lot asked for in a Big Brain Sense. Maybe u can master the Aim, and Positioning of Soldier, but, like, everything is simple enough to think about. Maybe use Heal Field more supportively. Ult in a more Space-oriented way. Learn how to Rocket Jump. But not too much going on for him. Ashe is like Widow, with more helpful tools in-play to be more versatile in her kit compared to Widow. Is there anything Big Brain-Wise that u can do with Ashe? Maybe get Boops with Coach Gun, or maybe some Big Brain Usage with B.O.B, like to Stall, or to Throw some1 up to set up a kill for, an example, ur fellow Widow, or something. Not as much into Ashe Big-Brain-Wise, compared to Widow.
Zarya is straight-Forward in the sense of knowing bounce tricks with her Right Clicks, to speed urself up at cost of ur HP, or Rocket Jumps, maybe something crazy with her Ult, but not much else I can see. Maybe solidly protect somebody with her Bubbles? Torb, honestly, heās higher than F because u have to worry about the positioning of his Turret, and u have the Ult that u gotta know how to use properly, which is spacing out the enemy, but then what do u cut off? Maybe u cut off their escape, or maybe u throw down a threat below em, a few different things. Good timing of SHIFT can be surprising sometimes. Idk, I think this is enough to keep him away from F Tier.
Junkrat is interesting. Heās mostly easy, but the positioning u have to keep in mind of his Basic Attack in certain moments, and itās not easy to get dmg and kills from Far Distances, and Good Junkrats know how to deal dmg and kills from far distances. Traps is another thing to keep in mind of where u position em. Lastly, the Ultimate, which is some-what like D.va Bomb, in a sense. Time it right, position urself safely, make sure the tire doesnāt blow up, calculate where it should go and who should it kill. And do be mindful of ur Passive existing. Sometimes, u wanna Trap be4 u die so that the Passive can do some work, or sometimes, specifically for Bastions, U wanna Sacrifice urself to let the Passive Kill the Bastion. So thereās reasons y heās not F, but should he go higher than D Tier? I think, for safety, I keep him at D. He does enough and has enough of a Big Brain requirement to stay away from F, but itās not comparable to, like, Sigma. Especially when people can just get value off Junk by random Spam, so because of that, I think itās safer to leave him at D Tier.
(Cause I need to speed things up, F Tier is basically exactly what I said for the most part in the paragraph BE4 I made the List. Read that and thereās my reasons for F Tier.)
(Sry for the loooong post, and sry if some stuff sounds vague, Iām just rly tired from all-nighter and will be sleeping now, sooo if u want me to do anything, wait til tmr and Iāll do stuff)
Beautiful