It’s not a skill but it’s common sense. You don’t go Paper when you know the opponent will go Scissors.
That said, between tanks, there should be a lot less HARD countering to decrease “swap the tank: the game”.
It literally was back in OW. Hell you could even be banned in comp games by refusing to swap heroes if you were being countered.
I still have to be skilled with that hero if I want to take anyone down.
There is no ‘instant iWIN button’ that I can press just be countering. Even if I swap to a hero that counters yours, if I am not skilled with that hero, chances are I’m not going to kill you. I get an advantage, nothing more.
The absolute cope in this. No, you aren’t outskilling a Junkrat by killing them as Pharah. Good Lord…
And before you turn around and say it’s an excuse no, it really isn’t. Depending on the account I’ll just switch and force you off Pharah since…Wait for it…It’s not a skill gap. It’s just a stupid matchup where skill is borderline irrelevant.
If you swap to a hard counter you’re admitting that you can’t compete in an even matchup. Deny it all you like but that’s the reality. It’s the lowest of low skill things you can do because a hard counter by definition has major, game changing advantages regardless of skill. That’s why it’s a hard counter.
1 Like
And the examples you give are absolutely on point.
Switch to Orisa because she’s busted and obviously to Pharah and Echo because they fly, so no matter how much of sh^t player you are, by default you are immune to half the roster
A lot of people in this thread should go play CoD or something if they want everyone to have the same weapons and an even playing ground.
Overwatch is a game where every hero has a completely unique kit from their primary fire to their ultimate. There’s literally no way to make every hero good against every other hero. It’s simply not possible.
And this nonsense argument about how counter picking wasn’t as much of a big deal in OW1 is just that, nonsense. If anything there may have been less counter picking because double shield just trumped everything else and people would report you for playing half the roster because it was not optimal. In OW2 we have WAY more viable hero variety, and that’s a good thing to me.
Yes, you’re outskilling by actually knowing how to play Pharah in addition to Junk, Cass, Widow, Genji, etc.
The mental gymnastics one tricks go through some times is amazing. Not being able to switch to counter is admitting a skill gap.
1 Like
It’s really you who write words without saying anything
Like…?
There’re plenty of heroes that do well in junkrat, if you’re taking that ONE completely one-sided matchup, which is pharah or echo, you’re just a piece of garbage
If you’re a junk one trick who is incapable of switching to counter that pharah or echo, you lose because of that skill gap.
You’re losing 'cause you didn’t switch actually, be it ego or something else
But atm it rarely even matters if u switch to a pharah counter to combat it, pharmacy is just busted atm and the skill required to play it versus the skill required to beat it ain’t even comparable.
Another thing for why CP-ing isn’t a skill gap it’s because those who do it, obviously switch to the most busted autopilot pick.
During the Hog meta, I’ve had plenty of opponents who got rolled, switched to 1-3 other tanks, STILL got rolled then went hog and boom, value and won. That’s far from skill.
In the current meta, Pharmacy and Orisa swapping ain’t skill dif, that’s just pisslow abuse
Actually Illari is a nice addition to the support roster against Pharmecy. You can chunk their HP pretty hard if anyone else is even shooting them.
Whatever you need to tell yourself to protect your ego.
During hog meta, as a tank player you needed to be good enough on hog to not only switch to him, but outplay the other tank on hog. That’s the skill gap I’m talking about.
This is the dumbest stuff I’ve read in a long while.
My bad for even arguing with you
Heck no. This game is about countering and switching. It´s pretty annoying to have new heroes behind a paywall.
Also, I recently got a CD from enemy Echo using my character, so I could not switch, when I needed. I already made a topic about it - it´s annoying.
Cass was never a hard counter to Tracer lmao. Flashbang was annoying as a Tracer, sure, but baiting it out was easy, and him saving it for Tracer countered him more than it countered her.
1 Like
I liked it better when switching was a more tactical approach than something you can now do to easily tip a fight over. The switch passive should not apply to tanks.
for the most part, the counter player is never playing those different counters at the same level, they’re playing straight up worse and winning cause counters.
yes, not how well you play them. zero skill involved.
yes, an issue of measuring skill, as skill rating means nothing if all we’re measuring is how often you can “counter the counters”.
games should not have paper and scissors. they should have gun and different gun. you may have different playstyles, weaknesses and strengths, but nothing should be autowin like rock paper scissors.
there should be no hard countering. even if you reduced it, they would stack it. so you just need to remove all hard countering.
1 Like
yeah the hard counter design of Overwatch is a pain, the game and heroes should be reworked to a passive counter system like tf2 where each class has counters to the others but not hard counters. so fights are more skill based and not predetermined by whos playing who.
1 Like
This type of games will have counter relations even if the devs didnt want. But the devs should manage that the (dis-)advantage should not be too much.
This is not a card game after all. When picking a character is more important than the actual gameplay, then why should we waste the time and effort? We could decide the winner/loser just by comparing the team composition.
2 Likes
What an absurd take. You don’t need to know how to play Pharah well to counter the average Junk. Do you even understand why something is called a hard counter?
Erm…
2 Likes
yes, I read what you said, and funny how it’s always some anonymous “alt account” that proves it wrong. If someone swaps and you can’t kill whatever they swap to, it’s a skill issue.
This game is designed around counter picking. That you can swap mid game is the biggest thing that set OW apart from other games. If someone swaps, and you aren’t able to kill what they swapped to, you lose because of a skill gap.
I’ll say it again, the mental gymnastics one tricks go through is sometimes amazing. There’s more skill to OW than being able to play a single hero very well.