Counterswap is for people who admit defeat, that their ability to express their skill has ran out and they need help.
Thank god theres still people that remember that V E R S A T I L I T Y is a skill. And unironically, way more valuable than people think (but RQ killed the pool of those players).
Crying about counter swapping is for sore losers. The moment you faced a true challenge, aka your counter, instead of being able to respond, you cry about the other person having more versatility than you.
See? we all can do that.
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Don’t worry, it’s not something anyone with gamer skill is going to agree with. Ever.
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I think hero bans are the best way because balance will never be in a good spot for many reasons.
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The devs just simply don’t balance fast enough. Compare ow’s balance schedule to league of legends. League of legends gets patched every 2 weeks vs ow which is like once every 6 weeks.
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Ow devs create the most unbalanceable kits ever because every hero has to be “uNiQuE
” which sounds good on paper but usually just ends up meaning the devs are adding stupid unbalanceable mechanics to the character like Kiriko TP&suzu, mauga healing, Ana nade. -
Ow devs will, in most cases, refuse to heavily rework a character at the cost of their “identity”. There are many times a character they’ve made has been so problematic. Instead of reworking them from the ground up, they’d rather nerf them into complete oblivion.
Instead of having to jump through all these hoops for balance, just let me ban it instead. I’d rather have a competitive game where I can ban out super op stuff so people can’t abuse the same OP skillless stuff over and over again
I’m more concerned about the quality of matchmaking post Season 3/4 than hero bans tbh. What’s the point of banning broken heroes if you’re gonna get steam-rolled anyway by a huge team-diff.
I play in a smaller/less populated region, so it’s somewhat understandable that’s the reason why the matchmaker sucks. But even during peak-hours, the match quality feels lower compared to OW1. But I’m not sure if that’s due to the format (5v5 RQ) or changes made to the matchmaking algorithm to prioritise fast queues.
So far, I’ve had better “feel” of the game overall in 6v6 OQ in OW2 compared to 5v5 RQ. By “feeling”, I mean the overall experience of the game, probably because I personaly prefer the 6v6 format over 5v5. However, the matchmaker in 6v6 OQ doesn’t feel as balanced as 5v5 RQ. And the 6v6 OQ matchmaker is also nowhere near as good as 6v6 RQ matchmaker back in OW1.
I never got to try out the 6v6 OQ without the perk system either. So again, this leaves me questioning whether the issue lies in format (OQ, perks, S9 global health increase) or matchmaking algorithm.
If I have to guess, I’m leaning towards the issue being open queue matchmaking algorithm not being as solid as role queue matchmaking algorithm + changes made to matchmaker. Rather than the new perk system or S9 global health change.
In terms of matchmaking quality, I’d rate them like this: 6v6 RQ OW1 > 5v5 RQ OW2 (esp during S3) >>>>> 6v6 OQ OW2
Except that you’re the one fitting the definition to a T and refuse engage with anyone disagreeing with you when they ask a question or bring up a point that you don’t have an answer to. You even had mods point it out to you.
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True skill expression is basing your hero choice on which hero is currently the most broken
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Good thing that I don’t have to play with any modes with hero bans.
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Exactly. There will still be modes that don’t have it available to those who don’t want it
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I’ve seen some great points on both sides of the aisle.
CON:
Counter-swapping is a great counterpoint, as it attempts to negate the meaningfulness of skill expression when a character is fundamentally outmatched by a counter.
However, this actually works in favor of my proposed thesis. The countered player must play harder, and in the case of OTPs this is where they shine. Being able to win when the odds are stacked against you is the truest form of skill expression.
Counter-swapping, while a useful skill on its own, is more of an exploit and relies more on the hero’s toolkit to provide value than the player’s own skill.
PRO:
Another interesting point I’ve seen is that bans promote skill inflation and encourage one-tricking, and that bans fundamentally unfairly act as a random “luck” factor in a strictly competitive environment.
Because why wouldn’t one-trick players try their luck at banning a hero that counters them? If they get lucky, they gain a chance to win free SR - not by earning it, but through the same exploit that risks them having their own one-trick banned.
Both scenarios, where either the OTP or the counter-pick are banned, gives an unfair advantage to the now-advantaged player. When luck works in a player’s favor, this creates ranking flux where a player wins matches they would not have otherwise won.
I believe what people are after with bans are fundamental gameplay changes, such as anti-heal mitigation, sustain/immortality metas, and impenetrable defenses. But, that presents the case all on its own.
These mechanics are supposed to be difficult. It is supposed to be a challenge to deal with an unfair advantage, and beat it.
This isn’t an argument for or against counterswapping, but moreso an argument in the affirmative for individual player skill expression.
No matter if you prefer skill expression through mastering a shallow hero pool, or if you prefer a variety of skills, that your choice of skill expression not be denied through an act of random luck.
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Great post - good job considering both sides and coming to a well reasoned conclusion!
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I should also raise the point that soft hero bans already exist in the form of hard counters.
That is such a stretch it is made of rubber and sold to kids.
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You have yet to contribute anything meaningful to this discussion.
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Neither have you, which is ironic given you made the thread.
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That’s such a stupid way to look at things. Flexibility is a skill, but not relying on flexibility and making it work regardless is equally skillful if not more. Flex players learn to play around their obstacles while otps learn to play through them. Both get to the same place.
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I mean I personally don’t mind (some) metas to stop things being stagnant, but I actually do think that’s a fair use for bans regardless.
I just don’t like the idea of winning because I gave the enemy a handicap. It doesn’t feel earnt or fun.
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Yeah, the challenge isnt what it was, with the addition of hero bans
Yet another reason why hero bans are a very bad thing
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Right, so what about on console?
I’m just supposed to sit there and accept that it’s just a “challenge” that D.va has been giga-meta for five seasons straight?
Hazard didn’t overtake her, nor has the current PC Zarya meta. NOT EVEN HER BIGGEST COUNTER ON THE TANK ROSTER IS ABLE TO BEAT HER
Blizzard refuses to address console-specific balance, so I sure as Hell am more than happy to do it myself with bans.
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Good.
Also what’s inappropriate about pointing out that XIMs aren’t dealt with Dodo? Cause that sure does feel like a false report.
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