Banish Mauga, Orisa and Roadhog to Hell. Maybe Hazard, depends which way the wind is blowing.
Then buff everyone else (if needed).
With the big three dead and buried, every player, Tank mains and otherwise, are now allowed to have fun again and it’ll make some Tanks like Reinhardt actually playable again (it probably won’t, Ramattra still exists).
This would also help fix the negative stigma Tank players have as big DPS (unless you’re a certain someone who’s still fuming because Sigma and Domina are too biwg and scawy).
Not to sound elitist, but do Mauga and Roadhog really count as Tanks? I don’t think they should be moved to the DPS role, they’re far too big, but like, come on. I think they just need a rework, but not something like giving Roadhog team healing.
And Orisa and Hazard are just annoying to face, but I’m basing my Hazard hate off of Stadium mostly, where he should absolutely be gutted like a fish, Stadium Hazard is release Brigitte’s sleep paralysis demon.
It’s still an unfavourable matchup given the poke and the inability to block his damage. In a 1V1 Rein clears, but it’s never a 1V1, Ramattra can protect himself from your team and still attack, and he has the second healthpool with a movement speed buff.
If Junker Queen does, then they absolutely do as well. Not that I really care all that much, my hottest of hot takes is that we should have abolished roles altogether 10 years ago, but that’s a complicated topic that I don’t have the energy to write right now :p
I’m not totally opposed to that in theory (heck, I even want a Mauga rework somewhat), I just don’t have any faith in Blizzard’s reworks considering all the utterly terrible ones they’ve done in the past
They will not fix the tank problem without fundermental changes and that mainly means: self sustain for all tanks and the removal of shields and things like DM for teamprotection. The problem is that most tanks need a support stuck to their behind to have a good time.
The idea that tanks should be “brawler” like they originaly thought, is a good one, but they would need to rework like half of the tanks. Modern tanks like Queen, Mauga and Hazard are more or less what the role should be.
Oh, yes! Make the game 6v6 again and finish it with a bow. Boom. Fixed. Yes, many people will not like it, because tanks like Sigma, REIN and also Dva would be unrecognizable, but thats the price… well I think Rein as the only shield option would be fine.
The thing is this gets rid of Orisa who I actually do not have a problem with. But it doesn’t get rid of Ramattra, Doomfist, or Zarya who are cancer.
I don’t know if I like the idea of addition by subtraction anyway. I do think many of these tanks are the more poorly designed ones, but not one single tank is universally liked or disliked even. Even the most popular and beloved ones have their haters. If you ask 10 people which tanks should be removed you are likely to get 10 totally different answers.
Junker Queen is fair but I like her bleed = sustain kit and she doesn’t have a hard stun, she instead has a pull and movement speed buff. Junker Queen is just the perfected version of Roadhog.
That sounds like Hell to wrap my head around tbh. And I think I prefer how Blizzard added more roles instead of just getting rid of them all.
That’s also fair, but they did a good job on Bastion imo, but they also did a bad job on Sombra like 7 times…it’s like surgery, if it has a 15% success rate, and they messed up Sombra’s sandwich 7 times, then hopefully Mauga will get that 15%.
You will never make everyone happy, the question is rather how much of the playerbase can you upset to make the game much better for everyone else. Just imagine if tanks would be much more fun to play and the queue times would almost be instant and most people would actually enjoy playing their mainrole lol
Exactly, Rain wins in a 1v1, he’s not weak against Ram. This is a team game, so how would they balance the character? You depend on your team to win, but because of that, unfavorable matchups are winnable.
I disagree, Domina is a good example of a tank, even though I hate fighting Mauga, not with Mauga on my side, unlike Domfist and Ball, who are usually… complicated.
That’s the problem, Ramattra can multi-task, but Reinhardt absolutely cannot. And being a team game, that means Rein falls short.
Yeah, and even Sigma and Ramattra play well with their poke/brawl playstyles (I play Sigma like brawl, it’s more fun), it just feels better than mindlessly standing there on Orisa or Mauga. I WANT to cycle my abilities well and outsmart my opponents, not just go HARR HARR and either win instantly or die horribly anyway because Ana made eye contact with me from 50 meters down range.
I think I don’t like Orisa because her best counters are Zarya, who I main and am kinda bored of, and Mauga, who plays like I’ve been lobotomised. She’s a brick wall with a mounted turret against most other Tanks.
Again, Mauga is a lobotomy patient.
And Roadhog is only useful every 7 seconds when he instantly obliterates anyone smaller than him. I want to brawl, not go fishing.
That’s also fair but can you really find a substantial enough group of people who even tolerate Roadhog? I think even Orisa is seen more favourably than him.
That just turns every Tank into Roadhog I think, or Junker Queen? DM and shield ARE D.Va and Reinhardt’s self-sustain, that also happen to protect their team. Would you just give them lifesteal instead?
Yeah 6V6 should be mandatory, I only play 6V6 when possible. Maybe a lot of these Tank issues would also be fixed if the other Tank could sustain the first one? 5V5 forced all Tanks to just be a brick wall or have self-healing.
This is true… Rain is a hero of the “old mentality,” even though quick relocation of his shild is cool, he falls short of all the utility that the new tanks (excluding Malga) offer, but I really don’t know what they could do to improve that. It’s not like they can start cutting the utility of the others.
I’d just make Reinhardt faster, like how Tracer and Genji move at 6m/s when everyone else moves at 5.5m/s. Just a 9% movement speed buff on the melee character would be interesting I think. Ramattra moves 20% faster in Nemesis Form btw, so Reinhardt moving 9% faster doesn’t seem too bad.
I also thought maybe he can attack whilst shielding, like he swings his hammer with one hand, but he swings 50% slower because he’s doing it with only one arm? But that was just a crackpot idea that might break him.
Honestly, it’s a good idea, it would make him a bigger threat, or maybe put a debuff on his speed if he walks backwards, so you could reach someone who is retreating and shooting at you. I believe both ideia would yield good results.
That’s the rework I hate the most of all, since it completely ruined my favourite hero.
The only “rework” I like is the Lúcio one where they made his wallride actually functional, though I’m not sure if that one is even considered a true rework.
Back on the actual topic; I’m not entirely sure whether the Tank role really needs to be made more appealing than it already is to certain players. It doesn’t seem to be so unpopular that it’s causing problems with queue times or anything like that (or at least I haven’t seen anyone complain about that)
I don’t think any of the ideas in this thread would even come close to accomplishing that though. I’ve traditionally been a tank main myself and like my suggestion is to go back to the known format that worked before they started messing things up.
Every tank has either a shield or DM but only one form of damage mitigation not 2.
All damage mitigation is potentially team based (Winston, Reinhardt, D.Va).
No more meat based tanks. No damage reduction on button press via block, fortify, anything.
All tanks have range limits. Effective ranges on tanks guns are 10-15 meters.
Tanks have high damage output (up close) and low damage output at range
Make armor flat 30% (this is something they actually got right with OW2 and messed up again).
Tanks should be tanky. I actually think HP / Armor pools for current 5v5 are correct
To me, this would be the solution. It would remove the following tanks mostly due to either range, lack of team utility, or survivability simply on button press:
Ramattra (because of Nemesis form, block, and primary)
Doomfist (because of block)
Hazard (because of block)
Mauga (no team utility, too much range on primary)
Orisa (fortify, range on primary) - sad because I like her
Roadhog (Take a Breather)
Sigma (2 forms of damage mitigation, range of primary)
Ball (his personal shield)
You might wonder why Queen gets a pass. Shout applies to the team.
This leaves us with what I consider to be healthy tanks
D.Va
Domina (though the range perk has to go)
Queen
Rein
Winston
Zarya (I hate her but she actually is fine based on the criteria I think make tanking fun/healthy).
This is based on how tanks were originally designed and the principles that I think make tanks in OW tanks and not just fat DPS.
