Healers do too much damage


#85

Why?


#86

I know im not in the “cool crowd” for this-

But I dont feel moiras damage is anything to scoff at.

I say this as someone who likes to play moira.

50 dps may be the lowest sustained DPS in the game

But its consistent. Theres very little demand on aim- with a very generous hit box and no projectile/delay to the damage, the range is considerable (20 meters), and theres no ammo, cooldown, recharge, or any other resource of any type to consider.

Being simply within range of moira for 2 seconds is enough to reduce any standard 200 hp hero to half their life.

This of course doesnt take into consideration her orb- Which, unless its eaten by dva- Does 50 dps itself. Combined with her grasp, for 100 dps. It has a 5 meter tether range, giving it an effective bubble-range of 10 meters. It moves at 20 meters per second, and slows down when tethered to 5.5 meters per second- Matching the speed of any hero outside of the exlcusions (Tracer, genji, lucio speed boosting).

Now suddenly that “2 seconds in range” is lethal to those heroes.

Moira does damage- Plenty of it.

But that shouldnt be surprising- Its basically ALL She can do along with healing- As her kit offers zero utility.

Now dont get me wrong- I dont feel moira is OP. at all. Even a little bit. And probably needs buffs if anything (though I feel she is, like quite a few other heroes- More or less on the line of “balance”- and not overly far from it).

But i feel the notion that her 50 dps “isnt much”, is a bit of an over exaggerated myth personally- Largely because of the context of how her full kit works.


#87

Finally I get acknowledged for being the DPS machine I was born to be. Reddit Lucio’s unite!


#88

Tasting they Moira doesnplenty of damage due to “consistency” is a straw man argument to the fullest.

No true Moira player maintains 100% accuracy. Even if she where tonmaintain that accuracy one a single target, a 200 hp hero sustains against her for 4 full seconds.

Anyone who cannot our duel a Moira in 4 full seconds has a skill issue. It is not a Moira is “too consistent” issue.

Hence as rank rises, she becomes less useful because all she has is low dps with limited range and healing.

If her “consistency of dps” was an asset to her kit she would be more useful at higher ranks.

Let’s putnit this way: it takes Moira 4 seconds to do 200 damage. McCree can do 140 dps, in 4 seconds he can output 560 damage. At 4 seconds to do 200 damage he needs roughly 35% accuracy. Which is the accuracy of an average McCree player.

Moira’s dps, is in no way, consistent enough to be considered an asset to her kit. It only feels that way to players in lower ranks because of a skill disparity not kit balance.

The only Support that can be considered to have high dps is Zen and even then, since he is a projectile hero, many players don’t have high accuracy, he requires really good positioning since he has no escapes, and his hit box is ridiculously easy to hit.


#89

Wasnt she nerfed to 60 precisly becuse she was able t kill pharah too easily ?


#90

Her low DPS #'s mean nothing when her beam is almost impossible to miss and has an extremely long range, as well a no reload. She can output more damage over the course of 10 seconds than a lot of DPS can, simply because her beam is more consistent than the damage output of other heroes.

I’m literally a Mercy/Moira main but I’m not afraid to admit that Moira does A LOT of damage. I just got out of a comp game where I had 71% kill participation with Moira by the end of it.


#91

But, what if we do a bit of theorycrafting… so, we take tanks and healers and stress their roles even more, ie tanks are more tanky and hit you with a wet fish and healers are healing like mad but are easily killed.

This will, in this primarily fps game, raise attractiveness of the dps role from 96% to 99.8%.

Wat do then:)


#92

Can I be a pain and ask you to define what “Straw man” argument means? From my understanding of the term- We may have a different definition- so id like to make sure were on the same page.

Never said they did. I said there was low demand on aiming skills, however.

Very true. Very neat observation.

Again- Im inclined to agree.

Again- Indeed. However- I never said moira being too consistent was an issue. I just said her consistency allows her to do reasonable overall damage despite it being “only” 50 dps.

And hence as i said- Moira probably needs buffs if anything.

Unless she had other shortcomings which diminish the value of her kit as a whole- In comparison to what both the meta currently is, and what other supports are capable of doing in that environment themselves. Consistent DPS alone wont make up for other short comings if those short comings are substantial enough-

And this is largely what id argue we see happening for moira. But thats just my 02 cents.

Oh yes, lets :slight_smile:

With just her grasp? yep yep.

Yep yep go on

whistles quite a lot. Im assuming were ignoring headshots? And that mccree only has 6 bullets in his peacekeeper, not 8. (Or were assuming he got 2 head shots out of the 6?. But go on

Interesting. Thank you for sharing

Id argue otherwise, personally- As I feel her overall damage is an asset in most situations, but her kit as a whole has too many short comings to make up for the advantages it can offer. After all again- Moira has no utility, being largely limited to healing, damaging, and running away.

Well great news

I never said moira had high dps.

I said the damage shes capable of is nothing to scoff at (What was that again about staw man arguments?)

I never claimed moiras DPS was the highest. I never said she was some heavy hitter.

I said, and ill quote:

The only time i really discussed her overall dps (other than listing what that value was) in such a fashion was the end of the post where I ended on the conclusion that I feel concluding her dps is insignificant, is devoid of context.

And I stand by that assertion. I dont feel her damage is little.

Again- Im not saying its the highest overall. Nor do I think she does “too much”. I just feel shrugging of what she does do- is dubious.

Yes- If you duel her and lose, you dun goofed.

But as moira- you shouldnt be dueling. This is, at the end of the day- a team game. If you can, on your own- whittle a standard 200 hp hero down to 100 hp in 2~ seconds- Theyre going to have to retreat, be saved by their team- or probably get killed by your team in the blink of an eye.

Sure shes not murdering you by herself- But she will contribute to your death- notably so.

That was the point of all this- No one should scoff at a hero who can reliably siphon your health to dangerously low levels in 2 seconds.

Shes not picked because she has other issues. Limited range, inability to penetrate shields with her healing anymore, one of the most important parts of her kit can be deleted more than easily by one of the most common heroes in the game, etc.

But damage, in and of itself? Not something I feel is a short coming for her- Again, due to the context. The context of her kit, the context of how it interacts with other heroes, the context of how the game itself actually plays in regards to objectives, goals, practical engagement distances, etc. Its not too much- doesnt need nerfed, she probably needs buffs- But I wouldnt “ignore” her damage either.


#93

I agree with this but that would mean people would have to work with each other to cover each others weaknesses but that will never happen. Tanks should take hits and create space not give out tons of dmg. Healers should heal and provide utilitys to their team not do dmg besides zen. I always forget that ow is built for casual players :frowning:


#94

The healer problem doesn’t come from them doing too much healing, or too much damage. It comes from their utility being powerful enough to completely negate those weaknesses.

Like the entire reason GOATS exists is because Discord and Speed Boost allow DPS-less comps to have the damage and gap closing capabilities to actually kill people. You can’t kite a Lucio deathball, and even though the sustained DPS of Reinhardt is lower than say, Tracer or Soldier, that doesn’t really matter when Discord allows Reinhardt to kill a squishy with a Firestrike/Melee combo, or Dva to just Booster and Rockets + LMB people.


#95

Isn’t it how it supposed to be?

Fix problem by allowing healers to buff DPS survivability, so they can’t be one-shot anymore. Since as for now, healers can only buff existing strengths of DPS, but not fix their weaknesses.


#96

Oh no, I can’t just use tanks and healers as ult bots and they can fight back. How ever will I tell my friends how cool I am if it isn’t as easy as clubbing baby seals. :sob:


#97

Support would feel horrible to play if they had no control over their own survivability. Healers are priority targets, they shouldn’t be super easy to kill.

Ana isn’t a sitting duck. She has her damage, nade, and sleep.

Lucios healing is weak, so his main function is speed. If he couldn’t shoot and boop then he wouldn’t be very fun since his aura is automatic and he would basically just stand there doing nothing.