Having Mercy be non meta is okay


#160

Doable or not, reverting this change would likely make Mercy a strong pick.


#161

Given Blizzard’s track record, that might take a while and I honestly hate waiting.


#162

Its implied. Over and over and over and over again. Dont deny it, we all can see it. In every mercy thread theres a gazillion mercy mains saying a form of “we didnt ask for this” and that implies that for the other reworks someone did ask for that?.

They actually did. It was on 100% pick rate with 0 counters to mass ress. Look it up. Its there on google and on the dev update video with the rework changes.
There were literally SEASONS where if you didnt have a mercy, you had a brutally high chance of losing the game.

These are just facts, you can try to deny them but they will still be true.

And yet is implied. And yet, any non mercy user who thinks the rework is good are constantly thrashed and bashed 100% of the time. So yeah, you may not write that, but the ACTS speak volumes.

No when the character is clearly overpowered or has a mechanic that puts other heroes in the same role to shame. If something is a “must pick” not because of popularity but for effectiveness and value, a nerf should be done.

Skill balancing 101. You are welcome.

It was LITERALLY the reason of the rework. Because that skill had no counters. LOL.


#163

Well the rest of us had to wait a year for Mercy to not be a must-pick.


#164

“WE NEVER ASKED FOR A REWORK”

Neither did Hanzo mains,but you all couldn’t shut the hell up about Scatter Arrow.
Neither did Symmetra mains when it comes to Sym3.0
I’m certain I’ve never seen a single thread on these forums where a Torb main was asking for a rework but here we are.

PvP games change all the time. They need to evolve in order to not become stale. Look at another Blizzard game,Heroes of the Storm. That game gets balance changes every two weeks and major content patches every month. So many heroes got reworked in the past 3 years since the game was released.

Change is a good thing. Sure,nobody is perfect and all devs have made mistakes,but change is needed sometimes.


#165

This is false and her pickrate has always been high. That often never has anything to do with how balanced she was but rather how popular she was. Also, her pickrate would’ve been particularly high right before her rework because of rework hype.

Stagger deaths, save an ultimate, split the enemy up, then kill. Those are the ones that came up on the top of my head.

People have already refuted those reasons.

Here they are:

She was historically underpowered before her rework? Invulnerability was added just because of how underpowered she was and even then, Mercy was slightly underpowered.

These “facts” are objectively false.


#166

Yeah, no. This is just my personal bias kicking in. Other heroes, yeah, they can get fixed. I don’t really care.


#167

Change being good depends on the context.


#168

Mercy needed a rework cause Mass Rez forcing teams to play around the enemy Mercy wasn’t healthy.

“B-but you can just kill her before she uses it!!” that can be said about every other hero

“ULT ECONOMY” Are you all Grandmasters or something? Do you all really want casual players to play around a broken af ultimate?


#169

No it does not.

We’re saying that A =/> R (A does not imply R, R being rework)
That is definitely not equivalent to say | If X =/= A
                                                                  |X => R
Logic.

100% pickrate is probably a bit hyperbolic.
And seriously, 0 counters ?
Hold on:

Citation needed.

Almost everything had to be nerfed in her kit in order to keep E-rez.
One of her oldest buffs, the one who made her much more viable, has been reverted.
Bad design.

Yeah, no counters…


#170

You are wrong 100% pal. It is proven. Stats were there in overbuff and omnic meta. After invul was added, she was a 100% pickrate healer. She even just rez 1 - 2 man because the Ulti was charged brutally fast (that got nerfed too)

Im afraid you dont know what a counter is.
A counter is : If you press Q, i can do “this thing” and you dont get to get value or effect from your skill (or it gets interrupted).

Refuted a statement from the Developers agreeing with top 500 streamers and based on THEIR stats (which only they can see)?
Oh so you are calling the Devs liars.

Cool.

She wasnt. You are literally denying the truth.
Mass ress with INVUL had no counters and the developer video that ch …
You know what? its pointless. You are going to deny that too.

Those facts are brought to you by the Developers mate.

Dont think calling them liars its going to work on your favor but cool.

Have a good one.


#171

It does. Logic, reason and maths.
2 persons walk into a room. They are asked about their wealth. One says “Well, at least I AM NOT poor …”
Yeah thats implying the other person is or at least not as rich as him/her.

Im not going to debate on this. Its like 2+2=4 but good luck in life.

And yet true. After invul was added there was 2 mercys in EVERY match. Of course it differs in certain ranks but it was there.

Check the definition i gave. Its the truth, sorry you are baffled by it.

Im not going to keep arguing with facts with people that will never admit they are wrong. Have a good one.


#172

I can already think of one thing that would’ve been more effective to fix this and would literally prove that a rework was not neccessary.
Drum Roll

A cast time; something Mercy had previously but was removed for unknown reasons.

Actually, I am GM but that’s not the point! Ult economy is essential for competitive play. As for casual play, well, it doesn’t really matter… If we balance around casual play, we’d be dealing with a lot of unneccessary hero changes.

Firstly, link these stats. Secondly, again, her pickrate has always been high, even when she was underpowered. Thirdly, that is also false. Her ult charges slower than most other ultimates in the game.

No. A counter is anything that negates or decreases the value of an opposing team’s ultimate.

This is argumentum ad verecundiam. Devs can be wrong too. If we take the devs words as gospel, most feedback would be dismissed.

Funny, because in the video you keep referencing, they never even talk about counterplay or invulnerability. Are you just going to keep making assertions without evidence or are you actually going to provide something worth-while?

I don’t think ignoring a whole, well-written argument proving that the reasons behind the rework were bad because Blizzard is Blizzard is good. In fact, it’s a logical fallacy.


#173

You do realise lower ranks exist too? I’m not saying the game should be balanced around low tiers but basically saying “Everyone should play around my favourite hero’s game breaking ultimate so I can feel special and game changing because screw you” is getting really annoying.

Mass Rez is gone and for a good reason. Sorry you don’t enjoy Mercy anymore,but spamming the forums daily and talking trash about the devs won’t do you any favours. They’ll just ignore you more. Reworks happen,the devs made this game and they can do whatever they wish with it.

Besides,some of the changes you all want would either make Mercy overpowered again(Mass Rez with Valk on E) or a bottom of the barrel garbage tier hero because she would be so weak(Mass Rez with LoS and cast time)

Besides,Mercy is fine as she is.


#174

This honestly best describes you. All you’ve done is said thus far is, “she’s OP. If you disagree you’re lying and you just won’t admit that you’re wrong”. I’ll let you figure out the issue with that.


#175

The responses you will get will likely be aggressive and frustrated either ignore them or try to maintain civility. otherwise you’ll just get baited into redundant arguments that wont solve anything.

The issue with people wanting to buff her a large majority wont be happy either way as you cannot please everyone but in this instance Im not even sure a lot of know what they really want her buffs to be like at this point, its just rage now. They cannot stand her being in a bad place balance wise for even a short amount of time let alone this long.


#176

Again, A implies B is not equivalent to not(A) implies not(B)
That’s a common bias.

The compound p→q is logically equivalent also to ¬p∨q (either not p, or q (or both)), and to ¬q→¬p (if not q then not p). But it is not equivalent to ¬p→¬q, which is equivalent to q→p.
(¬p = not( p ))
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Material_conditional

I’m actually studying maths, so I feel pretty confident with what I say. But thank you.

Nice contradiction. How can there be 2 Mercys in every match if it differs for certain ranks ?
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pdio3LY-Nq0/WVfxLHY3fZI/AAAAAAAAAuw/gsSTdtEGDIA4xfZOf0LEZokkfyNAzyGAACEwYBhgL/s1600/PC_Usage_Overall.png

Acording to your definition

Which I agree with.

No check back the counters I gave you.

They all fit your definition of counter.

“How dare facts disagree with me ?! They must be wrong !”

Hilarious.


#177

Lower ranks is not casual play? Also, we balance top-down. My point still stands, if we were to balance around lower ranks, a bunch of different heroes literally would be getting changed 24/7. Also, I never said that? I want a balanced Mercy. That’s why I always insist on bringing back mass Resurrect. It is quite literally the closest to balance, Mercy has ever been. I don’t know why you had to strawman just now. :confused:

Atleast try to acknowledge all the evidence that proves the contrary. I’m not trying to be mean but just saying this is honestly going to make you look bad.

I indeed don’t enjoy Mercy. I’m not the only one. Our concerns shouldn’t be dismissed because of lower ranks. :confused: Also, you’re strawman-ing again. I don’t spam the forums and I don’t trash talk the devs… If you’re going to make this claim, please provide evidence accordingly. I’m honestly surprised about these claims because I’ve never, intentionally, indulged in such behaviour. I am well-aware of how disadvantageous it is.

And that’s just another way of dousing the fire they started in oil.

Actually, the balance triangle completely destroys this assertion.

Mass Ress Mercy was historically underpowered so adding a new e ability wouldn’t make her overpowered unless said e ability by itself is overpowered. Besides, most people want either a Cleanse ability or Pacify.

I’m pretty sure these changes aren’t to make her more weak. We all want Mercy viable. Besides, good Mercy’s won’t have a problem with these changes. These changes are only an issue to those who, you guess it! Hide and Res.
Also, this Mercy suggestion that has accumulated a lot of likes is relatively balanced. Here it is:

I invite you to give your opinion on this suggestion though, I will warn you; as far as I know, no one has effectively proved this suggestion to be bad yet. You may be the first. Who knows…

Not according to statistics. Do you have any proof you could provide?


#178

what are you even talking about? why do people keep saying wierd stuff like “she didnt USED to be complete garbage” So WhY aRe YoU SudDeNlY mad NOW???

like its this out there mystery. when i heal all i pplay is ana or luceo and im glad they are viable i never thought it was fun to play mercy she doesnt fit me at all but why should we accept a brokenly bad heros state just because ONCE UPON A TIME she USED to be IN THE PAST a brokenly op character.

nobody is in general complaining about anas state. nobody in general is complaining about luceos state however you spell his name. they USED to be the wrong choice more often. what if people were still super upset now? if that was your argument i would understand. but i dont see why you would be angry about the complaints relating to a clearly misjudged redesign.


#179

Once again, a post arguing mercy is fine based solely on the fact that she was once meta. :woman_facepalming: