despite beliefs about match maker - lets stay focused on the question…
If:
MMR based on stats And SR is based on wins:
Then:
Can someone in a low elo have high MMR?
Story:
I noticed for every character they have key stats to look for in tab screen bottom right, kill streak, ult kills / ult usage, crit shots… I was thinking maybe MMR could be “related” to those stats per char… but then I’m like SR only gains and decreases based on wins, so like how can MMR be an extension of SR (I think I read that somewhere).
There are a lot of stats and calculations involved in MMR.
SR pretty much has no calculations and anything, so if you were to remove MMR you’d have to put in a base number (like 25) and you’d gain/lose it after every match.
So SR is pretty much a simplified value, making it easier to categorize players into ranks and visualizing where everyone is.
SR gain/loss adjusts depending on your MMR, so let’s say your MMR is higher than your SR… you’d gain more SR per win.
Same vice versa, though there are probably so many things involved that it might be much different. (Like losing a lot of SR if you have a high MMR since the game has high expectations of you)
There are no public announcements made by Blizzard explaining the system, though i think this thread provides the information you’ll require.
Yes. They can also have really high KSR (knapsack rating). With MMR and KSR, you can be expected to carry much more than 1/6th of the team’s weight, and be playing at output levels well above (or below) the labelled SR for the match.
Long story short, it’s rigged handicapping. You can still climb, but you’ll never know if your wins/losses were because of skill or patented rigging.
So tonights session, 10 games, and… 5 Wins 5 Losses.
My average SR gain for all the wins was 19 points, and average SR loss for the losses was 21 points. If I am losing more SR than I am winning, does the game expect more of me? But at the same time when I win I dont gain as much, so the game does not expect more of me. Its like if I win I’m in the situation where I do not gain more than the base of 25. (even if the base was 20). and if lose, it still puts me in the situation that it was expecting a win out of me - and I lose more.
No leavers, maybe questionable bots but no hardcore throwing.
My take away from this is I just want to know if the game thinks I am good stat wise. I have fun and all but seeing silver and bronze for years now makes me think I am not good. However if statistically wise I am good, then I at least know I am in a good direction, but I have been here for awhile now.
Can someone decipher this to determine the MMR?
=============== The numbers ===================
Sadly I leave 10 SR lower than I started.
I know you’ve read this thousands of times now, but land more shots, and die less often, pbsr will seriously help you if you can do the above, I legit climbed with a sub 50% win rate with Hanzo, gaining 30+ SR per win, and my loses were between 15-18, I had to lose 2 games to drop below what I was gaining for 1 win. It’s time to stop blaming this half broken matchmaker, the smurfs, the throwers, etc. Start working on your actual gameplay, it does make a huge difference, have some faith in your own skills, take the risky shots, eventually you will be rewarded.
Higher than SR yes, but generaly speaking high MMR no. I dont believe your MMR can be higher than 150 points from your SR. Unless you trick the game with constant. leaving.
For example when i smurf as low dia in silver, my SR will be 1600 and my MMR can be equal to 1700. Based on my experience and years of studying the ranking system it cannot go too far from SR. Like i cant have 1900 MMR while my SR is 1700.
Your MMR is most likely same as your SR. It looks like your performance is good in games you lost. But it is worse in games you won, which could indicate than you let other to be dominant in games you are winning and you dont try to be lead of the match that much. Probably too defensive game play, afraid to try make play or take risks as you are already winning.
So i think you have chance to keep gaining more as your SR loss/gain doesnt look consistent. But game doesnt think you belong lower.
This idea that SR and MMR are the same thing, or that one is an ‘extension’ of the other, is total nonsense that Blizzard/Activision reps have said to keep us from understanding either system, and our terms of use for competitive play.
The simple fact of the matter is that competitive play is handicapped by the Matchmaking engine. Competitive players should not stand for this, and they should demand transparency. More info in my thread on the subjects of SR/MMR/handicapping:
I disagree, I am not hitting an type of base. Based on what others are saying I should hit the base and nothing added when I win nor lose, but instead I get negative on the win and addition on the loss.
Mean while other folks are getting 20s, 30s, 40s - lol. Are my stats that bad that MMR thinks I am so bad?
Short answer yes, and it makes it extremely difficult to keep winning. Ive recently tested this theory out on a gold account thats been gold for for like 20 seasons. Took almost 16hrs of playing my mains to get it to plat. My dps stats were 8kd with 30-40 elims per 10. Accuracy on hitscan is around 70ish because of player movement there.
The better i played the more smurfs like myself were on the enemy team. After 10 wins in a row i faced a full 6 stak of all level 25 smurfs. My team was myself, another smurf on dps and the other 4 were all on losing streaks.
ML7 recently tested this on stream aswell and said after awhile the system will try its best to make you lose.
What you are describing as MMR is really SR’. It’s the predict/chase/catchup that Kawumba describes via MS TrueSkill and some classic Elo Systems design.
The “rigged MMR” most people speak of has 2 major components (according to the patents). The first is the hidden skill MMR for load-balancing team A with team B, (leads to plat smurfs in bronze matches, against one another). The second is the “knapsack rating”, or KSR, for your team (leads to you having to do 1/3 the teams work instead of 1/6).
So for these reasons you can have entirely mislabeled matches. The match is labelled 741 sr, but the worst player is a silver alt and the best player is a plat alt, and on team A the plat is expected to carry as 1/3 the team, while on team B there is a living carrot expected to pull around 1/9 the team’s weight.
This is why average is really the work of the devil. Seriously average sucks. For a .500 session I still end up 10 points lower than what I started. And even “on average” my losses were higher, 21 points versus the the 19 points in gain. Thats a draw towards lower. So yes my MMR is not GM and its expecting me to win, but (and just realized this) my Season High is actually around 1600… and maybe my MMR is fixed to that - so any loss under 1600 seems to have more weight (oh the theories are rampant when no equation is given).
https: //hbr. org/2002/11/the-flaw-of-averages
From what System, err XHelperZ said, if MMR is near SR. there would be no modification to the base, only if MMR was higher or lower. That contradicts what you said, if I am near my MMR then the base would evident - losses and gains averages would be close (Losses are more likely mid-low 20s, and gains are high teens) But from my small sample (very small sample compared to population of 1k hours in comp) - my SR gains / losses are not “right”. Or does not confirm with the theoretical system.
So this was me “trying”, it really was. I think at this point I’m acknowledging that my wins / loss (due to me or others) puts me at bronze / silver. But I atleast want to see some progression of skill not dependent on team - MMR. But this wacky system cant even derive my MMR…
Listen, or I guess read this part, you have many, MANY people willing to help you, take one of us up on it, the improvement will not be instant, but one you’ve realized you improved, you will already be hundreds of SR higher than you are now, I know sometimes it’s hard to look at the truth, and sometimes it truly is your team that blows, but if your losses and gains are that close, you really are where you belong, you drop stats go way up, you climb, stats go way down.
You have incredible potential to climb, but you need to accept the help being offered, sometimes it takes an outside look at what your doing to set the correct path, “les you repeat the same errors”
I’m not sure if you noticed this, but I changed my name from “Brett” to “Sue” as an experiment, as I said before I truly want to help you, and will wait until you are ready.