Hard to swallow pill


The vocal minority on here saying how upset they are about <Mercy, Sombra, Symmetra, insert next reworked character here> are just that. The minority. Look around. Its the same 30 or so people complaining about the Sombra changes. Do you know how many people play this game? The reason that you think “Everyone hates these changes” are because the ones that like it or don’t care either way arent coming on here because theyre actually playing tha game. Maybe the devs are looking at playrates and realize that the people that come on here to do nothing but say “I dont like this change”, contrary to their own belief, DON’T represent the whole.

(Sub note: neither do the twitch streamers.)


Eh, I’m the vocal minority in the vocal minority saying let’s give the sombra changes a chance on live, but are you suggesting they’re making changes based on the ptr playrates? Because that isn’t indicative of the actual game. People go to the ptr to play what’s not on live… otherwise they’d be playing live
Also, just generally, a speed decrease was never gonna feel good. And this isn’t really the way to respond, because instead of making any argument in favor of the changes, as people/streamers against them have made, you’re just saying that “you’re a vocal minority and thus don’t matter.”

Like I said, I’m theory crafting around the changes, trying to find new capabilities. Here’s a hard pill to swallow, you need to have a point before you go offering sage advice


Oh i’ve argued all over the place. I’m a fervent supporter of this change. This is just a general sentiment that some people need to hear.


If the naysayers are indeed the vocal minority, what does it matter? Maybe they (I) just want to vent about it?

You have to understand something else too, the forums represent very little of the actual playerbase. The majority of the playerbase is playing the game, not talking about it passionately on a message board.

If there is a slight chance a dev sees my comment, and thinks, “You know, that guy might be on to something.” it’s better than the chance I’d have if I didn’t post a single thing. The more posts I’m involved in, the more the replies count goes up, and the more likely it is to be viewed by someone who can analyze the data, crunch the numbers, and decide if changes are warranted or not.

The only way they know if what they have done is successful or not, is player input. They can test with a group of 20 internal testers, and they’re not going to find all the bugs. They can PTR and get 500 testers, and they’re still not going to get all the bugs. When we make threads about a change that has happed on the PTR, IN the PTR forums, it’s because we’re providing the requested feedback they want. What would be the point of having the PTR forums, and the PTR server if that weren’t the case?


That’s true!

I don’t know if you’re the type who get’s inspired by forum posts, but I recall back in the day playing a lot of TF2 and enjoying the events they pushed out as they reworked each class. By the time they reworked Spy and Sniper, their marketing/PR/creative teams did a great job hyping it up, as usual. But the roll-out was a huge mess because it corresponded with a random drop system for getting items (including the new Spy and Sniper items) and was the biggest disaster that game has ever seen.

You have to imagine it, thouasands of people who had never posted before on the Steam forums were signing up (myself included) in droves and tearing valve a new a**hole over it. I swore that they were the only time I would be posting on the forums, that I still had faith in Valve, but it would be the last time I would be posting once I had said everything I needed to say and that Valve needed to listen, because this was serious business.

And true to my word, and not to toot my own horn too much, but I sat there for about 6 hours posting and posting and posting, in every thread, to every comment, explaining and fighting. At first, I was angry and emotional. Over those 6 hours, my thoughts became more refined and concise as things settled down.

My biggest point? Why, during such a hype event, was everything ‘business as usual’? Why wasn’t Valve incentivizing players to play the hero’s they just reworked? Players needed to be able to earn the new items, not just randomly receive them!

And after that, months later, the Soldier vs Demoman reworks went live, and it was a huge event that lasted weeks and prompted everyone to pick a side and fight the other side for superiority. And the achievement-based way of acquiring items was reinstated.

Say what you will, but I know my words made a difference. That some exec at Valve read them and thought, holy s***, this guy! And then they took my feedback to heart and completely did the next rework according to the points I made (for there were many).


Overused “argument” to jutsify ignoring feedback.


I used to share this sentiment. I used to think the same whining and complaining by the same people is unimportant and unnecessary.

The fact of the matter is though that all points of view are important. It’s telling when you listen to the negative feedback and discover things you never thought about before because of it. It gives perspective.

It isn’t really about whether or not you agree; changing people’s mind is really hard unless you’re especially charismatic or arguing facts instead of opinion, it’s more about what common ground you can find, if any.

I happen to like the Sombra changes. I happen to like the Symmetra changes. I think Mercy is f***ed regardless, she probably needs to be removed if I’m being perfectly honest. Yet, I’m still here, commenting and reviewing the things people think and say regardless of whether I disagree with the opinion or not, even if I do literally laugh out loud at most of the obvious trolling people do here.

Don’t dismiss someone’s feedback simply because you disagree. Analyze it, argue your point and then try to find common ground. If the developers utilize our feedback as much as they say, these discussions are what is helping them make decisions going forward.


Masterhearts I totally respect your opinion but I’m OCD soooo…

You meant hear lol


Every game balance forum has someone who says all the criticism is a vocal minority. As if that has anything to do with the validity of the arguments.

It doesn’t matter what percentage of “the whole” is here. Read the arguments, play the PTR, form an opinion, and argue for it. What’s the point of this board otherwise?


What makes them the minority?


Regardless of the opinion, people who post on the forums number in the thousands. Maybe tens of thousands. There are millions of players. The forums will always be a minority of the playerbase.


Have any statistic to back it up or you just enjoy creating baseless click bait themed topics?


And? Of the forum population, the majority of Sombra players and players in general have said the PTR changes are bad.


Ah see, but many came here just to complain. They wouldn’t be on here otherwise. I’ve looked at a few of the prominent posters in this sombra thing, and many have no posts before coming here to complain. And honestly as I said before. Criticism is not bad. Melodramatically claiming that you’re world is going to end if these changes go through doesn’t help. It makes me roll my eyes and it probably makes the devs reading it dismiss you just as quickly.

NKB, See you may think that, but from a personal perspective if I were a dev on any game, I would read your comments the first time you posted it, maybe the second, but if you’re coming on here posting your vehemence over and over, I would note your username and start ignoring posts by you because they’re not providing new information and I have to parse through all these forums.


I don’t know if they make up a majority, I just know they exist. You can count the number of people who say they don’t like something, but all that means is that they’re disgruntled enough to complain about it. It doesn’t necessarily make them the largest population, just the loudest, at least from an outside perspective.


If you do your job well, you might receive a compliment, if you’re lucky.

If you do a craptastic job, you’ll hear about it, regularly.

That’s how these forums work. If all is good, crickets.

If something is borked, people will whine and complain about it until its fixed.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease, right?


People have been complaining about all kinds of things on this forum that haven’t been changed the way they want since this game released.

The squeaky wheel doesn’t always get the grease it wants, if at all.


Collectively, not any particular person :smiley:

All the wheels that make up X character that is broken.



LOL how are the people that actually play sombra the vocal minority about sombra??? How does that make any sense??? Every time she gets changed you have all these new people acting like they are going to stick with maining her and then they realize how high skill level she is and quit playing her thus her pickrate and winrate goes back down with only the serious sombra players sticking with her, You know, the supposed vocal minority that hate these changes. I have seen you in threads on the previous sombra change (live version) and you still aren’t maining her??? How many times are you going to make posts like this when sombra gets changed? If you were serious about maining her you would be maining her already. And no, we aren’t the vocal minority. The hatred of this change is collectively from bronze sombras all the way to grandmasters/ overwatch league players. If you mained her on live you would understand why the PTR changes do nothing for her in a fight. There is no use in infinite stealth if your speed is nerfed. Remember, any small damage puts all of sombras skills on cooldown. She is the only character in the game that that happens to. Everyone can get shot and still have all their skills. Now make sombra slower…that will cause her to get hit even easier, add to the fact that your only means of escape can now be destroyed by enemies when on live the worst they can do is spawn camp it. You wont be able to play aggressively with your translocator( you know, actually play her like a DPS) now you will have to play her passively. YOu will be taking up a dps slot on your team and not doing enough in the fight to justify not picking another DPS. Sombra already has no burst damage so she cant kill armored targets, she has no stun abilities, she has no one shot abilities, all she has is her utility and all this PTR change does is nerf her utilities. The only burst she does have is her speed burst which they are getting rid of to try and make her a scout…scouts dont work in overwatch. The team fortress scout works because when he decloaks he can one hit kill the target. Sombra cant.


Actually, a scout would be a great role for OverWatch if they allowed someone from each team to take the spectator cam slot. Imagine all the useful information they’d be able to relay to their teams! In fact, having someone watching the game and helping lead it as a captain who isn’t playing it COULD actually be a thing. But not on a DPS slot, that’s not an asset to the team. Just go Hanzo/Widow who have abilities that do that for you and are deadly lethal OR go Genji/Tracer who are powerful flankers with great in-fight mobility, burst, and ults.

Or pick Sombra, deal low amounts of non-lethal damage, build ult charge slowly as you are forced to reset multiple times because none of your abilities work reliably, try not to tilt when your team begins flaming you (for good reason), and then by the time you get one EMP maybe you’ll be able to combo it with Zarya/Hanzo who probably already got their ults while doing useful things and already won the team-fight for you, because EMP is more of an insurance policy than it is a way to combo (unless it’s combined with DVA bomb and their running a lot of shields in certain comps, that can work).

Then go quietly weep in the corner…