Hanzo's Storm Arrows are INSANE

A.) Prove it.

B.) Prove it.

C.) Objectively, he doesn’t need any changes. Even with your skewed and constricted sample size of GM only, he is showing as “working as intended” for a high skill hero (no changes happening). Checkmate

I mean, he kinda predicted you’d move there and you did.

Was it really luck?

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If memory serves, I think what they’re saying is that Hanzo’s projectiles, though small, are still larger than hitscan.

Maybe that’s the issue.

“Predict” all to do with luck my friend

if they were any smaller than the already massive problem with hanzo that is no-reg shots would get so much worse.

No hit-reg has been an ongoing issue. I think it’s caused by server issues.

Well you could look at it that way.

Or he made an educated guess based on your movement pattern? Or the environment you’re in, where the closest cover was, where his team was pushing so you’d subconsciously be more inclined to move in a certain direction?

You’re right, it’s still a guess in the end, but there are factors to make the guess more accurate. That’s why it’s called estimation and educated guessing.

And that my friend, has a measure of skill involved.

So basically the rework was pointless because storm arrow is just as broken as scatter.


Everything youre saying is about luck such as “guess”ing the movement pattern and hoping the enemy is like every other idiot enemy although the thought process is skill actually going for the kill requires quite a lot of luck similar to most projectile heroes. Also i never said he doesnt require any skill just without luck hed be almost unplayable

Hey so you guys do remember that Scatter Shot was effectively one shotting everyone but maybe 2 tanks with basically 0 skill required prior to this revamp, right? How are SA somehow a problem compared to that? SA requires landing 2-3 shots to kill a regular 200 HP DPS depending on headshots. As opposed to Scatter Arrow.

SA lets him retain his tank busting role he fell into with scatter Arrow but plays out a whole lot less cheesy. It requires some amount of skill to be as effective as scatter [with room for counterplay on the part of the other team] and in return is a bit more versatile.

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We’ll just have to see what Blizzard does, his GM stats post-rework, especially damage are second highest after bastion and third on all tiers after bastion and junkrat.

Elims is second in M and GM with Zarya (wtf) being higher).

Pointless second-guessing what Blizzard is going to do. We’ll just have to see. There’s so many things to look at. I’m just voicing my opinion, that Hanzo is a little bit too strong right now, but not by much.

Peace out.

Well they already claimed it is working as intended, and the evidence supports it.

  • D.VA and Zarya, even other DPS are performing better than Hanzo in many different metrics valid for DPS role. This is supported just as you said, even if you limit and skew the sample sizem (or not).

  • The objective evidence shows Zarya and D.VA doing way too much damage, and needing a large nerf to their killing ability no matter how you limit and skew the sample size(or not). They are outperforming a lot of off/def heroes completely in metrics specific to those roles.

  • Hanzo is a high skill floor and high skill cap hero, who was also just reworked. His popularity has no bearing on overpowered/underpowered. His win rate has no bearing on overpowered/underpowered. His performance statistics are showing normal for a hero with such skill requirements and maximum output.
    If anything what they really show is how much Heroes with LOWER skill input required need a nerf. (Looking at Zarya, Looking at D.VA, Looking at Pharah)

As a Grandmaster Hanzo main, the only change he needs is increase in ult generation.

People need to learn to adapt to a hero that was trash for the longest time.


GM players have different opinions though. Wraxu for example, thinks that they should reduce SB arrow size down to 4. Shrug.

Right, this is kind of an oxymoron no?

Not really in Overwatch, the game defines him as a sniper afterall. He has no fall off and can on hit kill, he has a relatively slow fire rate.

In compensation for not having the hit scan, he doesn’t zoom in like Widow and Ana do, so maintains a higher awareness of surroundings.

Widow getting key picks is a core strategy in maps such as Junkertown and King’s Row.

Yes this is a key strategy and I was sure you would bring it up – Hanzo does exactly the same thing, so not really a reason to pick Widow over Hanzo.

Exactly one. Widow outclasses Hanzo in this regard, which addresses your claim that Hanzo outclasses every DPS in every way.

So even though Widow can be a bit more consistent long range than Hanzo, it doesn’t make her overall a stronger pick, this is proved in hero pick rates, and performance stat wise.

Then we are in agreement. The capability to, but it’s not effective, much like the other medium ranged heroes in the game.

He is much more capable of it than heroes who have not only fall off damage, but also lower damage per shot, so why pick them?

When I said inconsistent I meant damage when it’s needed most. Sometimes things just don’t go your way and the projectile misses when you need to get a pick urgently.

Ah ok I see what you are saying, but I believe this is a problem for many heroes not just Hanzo, in addition since the projectile speed increase to Hanzo… I don’t feel like he is significantly worse off than other dps in this regard – after all his body shots do 120, so he is much more capable of finishing off a low target who has just start to be healed up than some of the other dps.

My point exactly. Soldier is useful if you require a DPS class with self sustain. The meta just doesn’t call for that right now.

This capability is good for 1 healer compositions, or if you want to play on the high ground and your healer doesn’t have mobility to get there quickly. However I would argue that this is bringing up a fairly niche reason for choosing Soldier over Hanzo… Honestly I would be more comfortable running solo healer with current Hanzo than with soldier.

You would find that he still struggles against Brigitte, Reinhardt and Genji at close range, storm arrow or no. Even Mccree if he gets his stun off. It’s a strong ability, but to say he outclasses every DPS in close range is a strong claim to make.

The thing is, Brigitte and Reinhardt don’t have the ability to “dive” him, neither of them have vertical mobility – Hanzo should not be in a situation where he is 1v1ing either of them, he has wall climb, AND he has the horizontal leap. For strong in close range, I mean that he is not so weak to being dived as he used to be, I am seeing Winston and DVA players complain that they can’t counter him effectively.

I didn’t mean to imply that he outclasses every dps in close range, he certainly doesn’t – however I also believe that close range fighting should be one of his weaknesses and currently with SA it isn’t really a weakness.

SA removes the weakness of close range in that it gives him a high damage rapid fire rate, snipers are usually considered weak in close ranges due to their slower fire rate.

I disagree. Scatter was stronger up close than Storm arrows.

I never really had a problem with scatter, in addition I saw it secure far less kills than SA.

He’s stronger against heroes that try to close the gap because he can escape and extend the gap again, turning it into a mid range fight where he shines. This is not the same as being strong in close range.

I wish to re-iterate the above here, no he isn’t a shining close range fighter, however the aspect of a sniper that makes them weak in close range (slow fire rate), is removed with SA.

As we already agreed, Widow is weak to barriers, and Widows have a tendency to outright kill their target. This reinforces my point that Hanzo is performing well because of the meta, not inspite of it.

Shouldn’t snipers be weak to barriers though? Why is one sniper weak to barriers and the other sniper in the game bursting through them? Again this points to a weakness that should exist for Hanzo being largely removed.

Again, Soldier does poorly against barriers, and he does not have the ability to take highground rapidly to look for angles that the barriers do not cover. It cannot be argued that hitscan is less consistent than projectiles. You know this.

While soldier will most likely hit more shots, his damage per shot is much lower than Hanzos, his rate of fire is fast enough that he will probably hit more of his shots – he does less damage though so I don’t really find that you would pick Soldier over Hanzo for this. Before the projectile speed increase – sure I could agree – Hanzo is much more consistent now though.

Fair enough. I would say it’s down to skill and where Hanzo is. If there is highground nearby he would have a better showing than Mccree. Maybe.
If it was in close quarters, there’s nothing like flashbang FTH for 295 dmg in 0.67s.

I almost never see a McCree FTH after a flashbang, they always just use their primary to head shot.

Hanzo is just better than McCree in every way at the moment, and with the rework fills a similar role, Hanzo just lacks in the crowd control aspect.
He does more damage per shot, he has the ability to one shot kill, he has higher burst damage, his ultimate can combo for a team wipe, he can provide utility to the team through sonic arrow, he doesn’t have damage fall off.
There is literally no reason you would pick McCree over Hanzo at the moment.

I meant it in the context of finishing kills. You will find that as Hanzo there’s no easy way to finish off a low hp target that’s a fair distance away.

Genji also has a projectile weapon; in addition the range of dash is 15m which is well within Hanzos “consistent” range.

Exactly. Once again, the meta does not call for doomfist, and thus reflecting his low stats.

It just wasn’t really a reason to pick Doom over Hanzo, you could argue that Doomfist is too “All-or-nothing” where Hanzo plays a bit safer with his team. Making Hanzo a more consistent pick.

I am seeing Doomfists go well in this meta.

As above. The amount of armour severely limits her strength in this meta.

Again it just wasn’t specifically a reason to choose Tracer over Hanzo, she is weak in the current meta true.

Once again, Hanzo is not a sniper. You also fail to account for the fact that Junkrat is able to deny areas outside his line of sight, or presence entirely (trap) Damage is correlated to area denial, but is not the be all end all yardstick.

The game specifies Hanzo as a sniper – literally says “too many snipers”. Overbuff tags him as a sniper – did you just decide he isn’t a sniper? Is this just your opinion?

If there is a Hanzo on the enemy team or a Widow on the enemy team, the same restrictions to how you position and move apply – as both have on shot kill capability.

Damage does not tell the full story. Pharah’s unique movement allows her to attack from odd angles.

Sure Pharah can be a menace, but she can also be shut down much more easily than Hanzo.

He outclasses every DPS in this meta. That is an important distinction to make. It is also unfair to compare Valk 1.0 mercy to Hanzo. Being able to instantly undo 2 picks while being nigh upon unkillable is in a completely different realm of imbalance.

This may be an area that we can’t agree on, at the end of the day blizz has available to them a lot more statistics than we can see on overbuff, so if he is objectively OP they will nerf him. I just hope it doesn’t take as long as it did with Mercy, these ridiculously OP reworks make me feel like I am playing a game in Beta, instead of full released and 2 years old.

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People asked for it. Complain about scatter, complain about storm arrows. Pick what you’re going to complain about and stick to it, please.

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Long live McHanzo! Yeeeehaawwwww!!! :cowboy_hat_face:

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Without luck he’d be overpowered.

He’d be hitscan.

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Personally I feel like the way people play in Bronze compared to Masters is different enough that I personally feel like that skews the stats if I want to look at how powerful a hero is.

If I am interested in how powerful a hero can be, why would I look at the stats of lower skilled players?

Besides that, if I wanted meaningful information - why would I look at just the average across all tiers, I find the information is much more meaningful when I look at it tier by tier. The skill of the player is a variable that I believe is important enough that it should be extracted and held constant when comparing hero stats.

Nothing is skewed in the data I put forward, all the data is from the same rank. I am not comparing a GM Hanzo to a Bronze Widow. I am just looking at the players who are most likely to get the full value out of a hero, thus get a clearer picture of where that hero sits alongside the others.

I don’t really want to argue about which character takes more skill.

I disagree with you that simply because a hero is difficult to play, that that justifies them being over powered. They can be balanced, while still being rewarding to play.

All in all they made an ability that require more skill than scatter but is more broken if used correctly… and to top it off they have gave him kind of a better double jump (escape) on cooldown and consistent damage like a hitscann in midrange and closerange fights…

The rework made Hanzo not viable… it has make him OP and SA need to be turned down. No critt and higher cooldown.