I said slow fire rate, not just slow.
Name a DPS that does not require tank and support support to be effective against an enemy team at a high level.
I can say pretty safely you wont find one. Due to this being a team game. The reason being that even the DPS who do have some form of sustain wont be able to take on an enemy team without support.
That is not the point that is being made though lol.
please donât make another good hero unplayable.
Reducing the damage by 15 would not have solved the issue of people using her as a sniper. Her projectile flight speed is 88.88 meters per second. At 60 damage she would still be doing 120 damage headshots. Sure it is not headshot body shot combo at range, but if the Mei is good enough to double headshot the problem persists.
Hence why they just gave it damage fall off. That also helped retain her effectiveness against flankers to a degree for when she did freeze them.
Damage fall-off? Ah hell no.
Adjust cooldowns? Thatâs the way to do it.
Storm Arrows upped to either 10 or 12 and Vault upped to 5 or 6 baddabing baddaboom ez clap.
I meant as in you need to be pocketed as McCree. Compared to the snipers and other anti-flank, McCree is the only one that needs to have a babysitter in order to have a decent impact otherwise he has to play too passively to get any real impact.
Edit: Referring to the higher levels of play, the lower levels you can get away with it more easily but there are still just better options.
Based off of pro play, and even high level streamer play McCree does not need to be pocketed to pop off and kill most of a team.
The player just needs to be good enough.
The only DPS I know of that truly needs a babysitter to even function on a basic level as a pick is Bastion.
Okay, so this is going to be lengthy and I will try to have a TL;DR at the end, but I have been playing Hanzo since I got the game, and I donât see what changing anytime soon. Since September 2016 I have collected about 240 hours of Hanzo play time, and to put this into better perspective, Hanzo has always had the smallest projectile in the game as I have played him.
In September 2016 Hanzo had a nerf/buff situation where his arrows flew a tad faster, and to balance it out his arrow size was nerfed. This got rid of his infamous "tree trunk" arrows.
People have always debated whether or not Hanzo is a sniper, the reasoning has always been because he is a projectile hero that requires him to be closer to the battle, and therefore people can easily see and get to him, he is not a sniper. However, because of his slow fire rate, high damage and ability to get into âperchesâ I classify him as a sniper.
Looking at his primary fire, in comparison to Widowâs, thereâs 5 points that set Hanzo and Widow apart in Hanzoâs favor when considering body shot damage. Hanzo does 125 per bodyshot, Widow does 120 per bodyshot. In Crit damage, Widow takes it with 300 damage per headshot, Hanzo 250. Hanzo takes a full second to charge his arrow, where Widow takes 1.2 seconds (.8 sec is deadly on a 200 hp hero however). This means, Hanzo has to fully charge his arrow for a 1hko on a 200-250 hp hero, and Widow because of her multiplier, doesnât. Not to mention Hanzo has to lead arrows, and Widow just points and clicks.
Widow also has a better re-positioning ability, where Hanzoâs is more convenient for the reacting player. Widow can disposition herself 30m every 8 seconds, Hanzo can climb walls whenever he wants and jump 8m every 5 seconds.
Both play best outside of the main team. Widowmaker is best long range in wide open spaces, where Hanzo is best team adjacent. He needs his team to be able to take attention off of him where Widow is so far away from the battle the enemy needs to consider if itâs worth going to spend the resources to get her down. Both are deadly in the right hands, and both have trouble in close range combat.
Hanzo relies more on close range combat, hence why he has a better ability for this. He is lacking in reliable long range damage. Itâs possible to do, and high skilled people with Hanzo can do this, but most Hanzo players canât take Widow perches and play the same as her and be effective. He is more comfortable to play in mid ranges, and because of that he needs something that he can use to defend himself in these situations. Widow has similar tools, but these tools arenât as relied on as Hanzo. Her mine (in my experience) is best used as an alert system if someone is close, then you can reposition yourself far away and snipe them from there. Hanzo canât do that so thatâs why Storm arrow (and previously Scatter arrow) has been included in his kit.
Personally, I play him as a sniper, away from the team, looking over everything and trying to get the best picks I can. When I play Widowmaker, I donât play much differently. When I play characters like McCree I follow my tanks around, where as Hanzo I am somewhere my supports can fly to if needed.
Now, as to whether or not heâs still slightly over-tuned now, I am still trying to decide that for myself. The only thing I personally feel is still off about his kit is Storm comes up too often. Taking the CD and increasing it to 10 seconds seems like the best idea to me. Thatâs all I think he needs done at this point.
TLDR:
Hanzo players have the most use out of playing him like a mid-ranged Widowmaker, his numbers and fire rate support this. He, like widow, are best played away from the Team with Widow in the far back line and Hanzo mid-back line. Right now, as a Hanzo main I feel he only needs his Storm Arrow nerfed from an 8 second cooldown to a 10 second cooldown, thatâs it.
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Forgot about bastion to be honest. Up until brawl became the meta again, Tracer and Genji would consistently shut him down or Hanzo/Widow would beat him at range. Heâs built around this awkward mid range combat with all short range abilities.
And yes, you can still have an impact as McCree but at the same time you could play Soldier and have a more broader impact on the game or Widow for more damage/kill potential. Not going to mention Hanzo given how op he is right now and that heâs outright replaced McCree.
Whilst I donât speak for the whole hanzo community Iâm quite sure most hanzo players donât mash storm arrow the second it comes off CD and I donât think the rate at which itâs being used is then problem and itâs more if the damage output
I wouldnât find it unreasonable if they reduced the count down from 6 to 5 and see where that puts him then make changes after that
Hanzo needs weakness at close range. Not long range.
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In my very little experience with the new Hanzo I can admit that Iâm not using Storm Arrows off CD either but the change would still help.
As for the mobility thing I suggested, I think we can all agree he is a little too mobile now.
If they reverted the arrow speed would that potentially help or no?
Widow gets better range. Mei has good range. Lots of heroes have good range.
Why are you bringing in Widow when your main point is about Hanzo.
Yet he still âgets more range than pretty much every other DPS except Widowâ
I donât understand what the point of the topic is.
She also has a compulsory cast time on it though. No matter what, you must wait 0.4 seconds. Meanwhile, both Hanzo and Widow donât always need to suffer a cast time. Even when Hanzo does fully charge his bow (for 125hp damage) it still only takes 0.1 seconds longer.
To make it clearer for you, here is a comparison of Mei, Hanzo, and Widow (and to stack the odds in favour of Mei, this is with 75hp damage flat, not 60):
Mei
- 75hp damage (150hp crit)
- 0.4 seconds between shots
- 0.4 second cast time (compulsory)
Hanzo
- 125hp damage (250hp crit)
- 0.5 seconds between shots
- 0.5 second cast time (max, can be instant)
Widow
- 120hp damage (300hp crit)
- 0.5 seconds between shots
- 0.75 seconds cast time (max, can be instant)
Comparing non-crit, fully charged shots in 20 seconds (with infinite ammo):
Mei = 25 shots, 1875 damage
Hanzo = 20 shots, 2500 damage
Widow = 16 shots, 1920 damage
Even non-crit, full charge time, Widow still puts out more damage than 75hp flat Mei. And I believe when she still had 75hp flat damage, Widow had 150hp base damage. Beta Mei being the best sniper, was a mathematically proven myth.
Edit: BONUS STAT! TTK 200hp hero, both crit and non-crit.
75hp, non-crit Mei = 2.4 seconds
75hp, crit Mei = 1.6 seconds
125hp, non-crit Hanzo = 2.0 seconds
125hp, crit Hanzo = 1.0 second
120hp, non-crit Widow = 2.5 seconds (Mei finally won a race!)
120hp, crit Widow = 1.25 seconds
Current Hanzo sadly exceeds the term ââgoodââ. Hanzo being the only DPS on the team is very common now.
Though Iâd say damage fall-off isnât the way to go with tuning him.
Allow me to put it like this:
Why bring a Widowmaker who could be dived, or a Hanzo who could be dived, when you could bring a Mei who not only could play the role of sniper, but could not be dived at all unless you wanted to be frozen and killed?
This was why people said that she was a better sniper then the actual snipers.
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You could make the same argument about old Hanzo and Widow. You dive Hanzo? He just uses Scatter and instagibs you. You dive Widow? She just grapples away to safety and your movement ability is on cooldown. The answer for all 3, and indeed any hero youâre struggling with, is to send more than 1 person after them
Widow for a very long time had a 12 sec cooldown on her grappling hook. So often times you dive a widow and she would just die. If she did grapple away your cooldowns were faster then hers. Next time you dove her she would die.
Hanzo required a wall to run away, and scatter was inconsistent. He could land it right and instagib you, or he could land it wrong and then you just splatter his innards across the ground.
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What about McCree?
20 char