Instead of gutting the hero per request of so many people, we should have 3 storm arrows, and have his old projectile speed back to make him not so luck dependent.
10 Likes
I wholeheartedly agree.
I think he’s very middle of the pack right now in realistic power level, and should not be nerfed without a buff or buffed without a nerf. Taking away spam/tankbuster damage in distributing it to being a better sniper is a great idea
4 Likes
Geoff (hero design dev) specifically said he did not like hanzo with the higher velocity and proceeded to revert it.
The buff Hanzo got in exchange for that was the rof buff on sa.
I don’t think uve said anything convincing for geoff to go back on his stance and certaintly not me.
Doesn’t mean much to me when he thought it was fine to bring launch brig, launch sigma, and moth mercy to live
3 Likes
It doesn’t matter what u want because you have no power or sway over anything. Ur going directly against the desires of a dev which already puts u at a disadvantage but ur also not giving compelling reasons to side with u.
3 Likes
Geoff is terrible at balancing. Look at what McCree was and what brig and bap are.
2 Likes
i honestly believe launch brig was brung to live servers for two reasons,
- blizzard probably demanded to not nerf tracer because she is cover girl so the devs made a hero to counter her always
- on the PTR she was received very well until after a bit when she was launched
no idea for this guy lmao
like again with brig, she was pushed to live for this sole reason
she was fun to play as and people didn’t mind facing her on the PTR until after a bit when she was released
and she countered tracer
1 Like
To be quite honest, I think the devs wanted to nerf tracer but so many people were aginst her getting nerfed because “high skill!!!”, and I even remember Jeff Kaplan mentioning something along those lines so we got brig instead
3 Likes
The only problem is that, with his old projectile speed even factoring in only 3 storm arrows he’s just straight up better than widow and ashe and is obnoxious to play into.
3 Likes
Not necessarily. Widow will always be better at sniping, and Ashe is very good at midrange. This powershift will help Hanzo be more skill reliant and less of a spam bot.
At 210 damage with all three hits, this makes it the lowest performing, lowest damaging ability in the game at a 10 second cooldown. You’d have to lower the cooldowin in compensation.
And he is at his old projectile speed of 25 - 110 meters per second.
You could still use it for finishing stuff off and taking care of flankers.
1 Like
Hanzo’s average hit accuracy is 33%. He’s not finishing off anyone with Storm Arrows, especially not with only three of them. You have a 67% of missing the target.
Just take out his unboosted OHK and give him almost all the bodyshot dmg you want.
“That’s skilless”
Ok, keep OHKs up to 30m, and have him do less damage to shields
“He’d be useless”
Fine, just lower his headshot crit multiplier and give him more body damage and more Sound Arrow uptime.
“Whines about thicc heroes”
Alright, <50m OHK, slightly higher body damage, Storms do the exact same damage they do now, and remove Lunge
*Starts crying while resuming fratricidal attempts
I guess there’s no pleasing you.
Slightly unrelated, but Hanzo and Cree shouldn’t be outclassing the shield break from heroes like Junkrat, but they do. So either lower their damage values to only shields (even just on FTH and Storms), or buff Junk and Pharah’s. Either that’s the play or removing things like Lunge and Flash. They could also just increase barrier HP, but let’s not get started down that path again.
2 Likes
They don’t. Hanzo’s 100 damage per second, Junkrat is 125 damage per second (factoring reload). McCree is less than both of them at 93 (or 131 if spamming FTH). It’ll take over 16 seconds for Hanzo to eliminate Reinhardt’s barrier. 13 seconds for Junkrat, 17 seconds for McCree.
1 Like
Where are you getting your values from, which abilities are you factoring in (or not), and do you have like a live YouTube link or some such? My shield break in live game scenarios are much more efficient with ease of execution using Hanzo/McCree than they are on Junkrat, with me having many more hours and experience on the latter.
Edit: Oh, and also, how are you calculating DPS distance compared to travel time, as well as direct vs splash hits for Junkrat, Mine travel/accuracy, and falloff for McCree…
You know what? I don’t really need the numbers that bad, I’d rather not make someone else do all the work on values to try and disprove something I intrinsically feel and feel like I know at the tier/modes I play at. I might be theoretically wrong, but I’m more than ok with that.
from my other post about him
How to fix Hanzo
- Storm Arrow damage increased to 80 (was 70)
- Storm Arrow count reduced to 3 (was 5)
- Storm Arrow can no longer apply critical damage
- Normal Arrow speed reverted
3 Likes
Nerf hanzo bc genji is better brother
1 Like
Basic math.
Hanzo is 125 damage per shot, 1.4 seconds per shot, so it averages out to 100 damage per second. Basic shooting at a barrier as large as Reinhardt’s is 16 seconds, 100 damage per second. Not hard to figure this out. If you want to do Storm Arrows, that’s 350 damage per 10 seconds. Or 88 damage per second burst. Factor in the 10 second cooldown, and you’ll find that Hanzo still does more damage within 10 seconds than he would with Storm Arrows.
If you want to use some combination of the two, that’ll still put you around 12 to 13 seconds to break Reinhardt’s barrier.
With heroes like Junkrat who produce 120 damage per shot, (or 1.44 shots per second) that averages out to 125 damage per second factoring reload times (for Junkrat, this is 1.5). Junkrat has a carrying capacity of 5 shots, 120 damage each, so 600 damage. He’s not doing enough damage to pierce Reinhardt’s barrier in one clip. So reloading is a factor.
Keeping things pretty simple. There’s no travel time, and splash damage isn’t factored, just impact (since it’s not hard to hit a barrier). Likewise, with McCree we’re assuming optimal range (at least 20 meters, or less) for things like FTH. Again, not hard to hit a barrier.
Players like to conflate or think they’re solo-ing Tanks when they really aren’t. There’s a lot of factors that go into dealing with Tanks and barriers and other defensive abilities. The short of is, barriers are designed with intention of taking huge sums of burst damage and even some sustained damage. The idea that burst-damage heroes are somehow good at dealing with barriers and other defensive abilities is logical fallacy.
As Hanzo, you’re not solo-ing Reinhardt and tank-busting him. You assisting an exploiting openings and gaps in their defenses to make the finishing blow, or doing significant contributing damage to eliminate the Tank. This perception is then feeded into death cams making the Tank think they died by Hanzo and Hanzo alone (or by any other target); thus they believe (wrongly) they were killed by solo-Damage hero.
This perception is also partially fueled by other factors, such as killing blows; which the competitive scene tends to place a greater emphasis on (rather than damage or eliminations). Hanzo is useful at killing weakened targets, as is Echo and McCree hence why they also get the Tank-buster moniker frequently. Whereas heroes like Reaper, who do possess higher damage totals and outputs in sustained fire aren’t viewed so frequently.
Most players don’t look at the fact or the numbers that Reaper used to 140 damage per shot with 2 shots per second (so up to 280 per second, factoring reload, 193 damage per second; one of the highest in the game). Reaper has a large spread and he is more geared toward sustained fire than other Damage heroes (who tend to reload every 3 seconds instead of every 4 or more). These days, Reaper does 120 damage per shot, or 240 damage per second. He still has a large spread; and he’s still more geared for sustained fire with some (uncontrolled) bursts of damage. He’s still better for eliminating barriers and targets like Roadhog than Junkrat or Hanzo. As are other shotgun-specialized heroes (exception; Echo).
If you really want to label something a Tank-buster; the best choice for that (if even) would be Tracer. Pulse Bomb charges fast, is easy to land and does significant damage to Tanks, and is much harder to defend against for certain Tanks.
Things like travel time are still important for projectile heroes in calculating real damage, but since distance is a huge factor and can vary depending on the distance (as can accuracy), it’s harder to get a clearer picture. Less-skilled and low-ranking players tend to play within 15 meters on maps and most capture points are barely more than 20 meters in length. Higher-skilled players don’t sit on the typical camp spots that low-ranking players do and tend to fight at distances at 20 meters or more. Most Overwatch maps don’t really allow for more than 20 meters or 25 meters of space without some kind of object, or natural cover or choke coming in the way.
2 Likes
True OW veterans remember when Valkyrie was the best dps ult in the game.
3 Likes