Brig and Mercy were both broken and easy to play.
Hanzo and Widow might be broken, but not both
well that’s the interesting question tho can u use character difficulty as a balancing factor?, I’d say no, a true character weakness is not one that the player can overcome it is a weakness that will always be there to limit the characters potential and stopping them from being broken, for Example, Reaper, his weakness is range and Armor, no amount of practice or Skill can increase his range, Sombra lacks dmg, no amount of Skill can change that, same thing for Winston,
Widow and Hanzo don’t have a weakness, the Player does, and the player can train and practice to alleviate there own shortcoming while other characters don’t have the luxury
you with your double standard and incomplete arguments.
“Widow doesn’t have the weaknesses of sniper in other games”
Surprise, there are other games with completely different requirements.
In many other games, snipers are able to quickscope and body oneshots. Either A
all weapons have limited ammunition, or they are significantly stronger special weapons. Mobility is also linked to the game. In Titanfall 2 you have a much higher mobility with the Kraber.
HP is the same for everyone in most other games, Oberwatcg and TF2 are exceptions.
Snipers only have projectiles in games where the distances are several times longer than the longest LOS in Overwatch.
In addition, with 12 seconds, widows grapple is the mobility ability with by far the longest CD so calling it free is simply a big lie.
If you implemented any sniper from other games in Overwatch, you would all cry even more because they were even stronger, despite some downsides. How about One Shot, Two Kills? Oneshoting Nano tanks? Body Oneshot every 250 hp hero?
You’re constantly taking it out of the context of the game.
Why don’t snipers have good mobility in many other games? because mobility in general isn’t that great in the game. No flying mechs, monkeys, hamsters, ninjas etc.
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Fear the sneaky Lucio.
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they don’t have mobility in other games becuase that’s what keeps them balanced if in COD you run around with sniper rifles as fast as smg and be able hop around a corner and quickscope someone that’d be broken, and in say TF2 the game Overwatch is most similar to the sniper doesn’t have an escape tool while Scout and soilder are able to run around like flying monkeys and ninjas, and in TF2 the sniper has the same amount of HP as the Scout i believe, he still has tools for close quaters like his smg and knife much like Widow does but tue Sniper doesn’t have a Super jump or grappling hook, go ahead amd ask yourself what weakness does the character widow have, and don’t say her shots are hard to land because that depends on the player’s skill, and then ask yourself what can she do at her best
I’m fine with the one shot mechanic since it takes skill to hit and then feels rewarding. I would probably change how the charge up affects the damage. So that they can’t spam and need to make each shot count
What I mean is that widowmaker and hanzo will need to reach full charge/drawback to kill a 200 hp hero. if they hold it for 0.5 second after reaching full charge/drawback then it will extend to be able to kill 250 hp hero’s
for widowmaker the power in her scope will mean the actual damage she does instead of percentage so she will deal 10-120 and then after 0.5 seconds deal 125. She will keep the 2x headshot multiplier.
For hanzo I think he should get the same power indicator to go help show how much damage he will do. And his damage will go from 30-100 and then after 0.5 seconds will go to 125 and keep the 2x headshot multiplier.
Except TF2 Sniper can one-shot every character in the game (with few circumstantial exceptions), can quick-scope to score a OHKO on most characters, his shots do not leave trails, he can halt a rocket jumping character’s movement even with a bodyshot as an inherent property of the game’s engine and there aren’t really any alternative choices for long range combat, nor does the game have as many anti one-shot measures as OW (like barriers, rez, characters that can obscure their head so that they can live several fully charged shots etc.). He’s much more centralizing in TF2 than Widowmaker is in OW.
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Character’s difficulty is absolutely a key balance’ s factor. Players should be encouraged to overcome weakness, not being punished for it.
We are playing a competitive game, not a friendly match where everyone should have equal chance of winning regardless of skills.
If you are good and a hero is limiting your potential, you need to move up to another hero to express your skills further.
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I think letting 200hp heroes get one shotted is fine sonce characters like Reaper, Sym and Mei aren’t really suppose to be isnta killed since they all take time in order to get going especially when fighting against like a hog, and also make it so Widows gun doesn’t charge faster when pocketed there’s no reason why she gets that
so what’s your saying then it’s perfectly fine in a hero based shooter where each character is suppose to matter that it’s ok for some characters to just flat out be irrelevant Im higher lvls, that’s a horrible idea so many characters have a die hard fanbase and place in the game to just say hey it’s ok for those characters to be left in the lower tiers is terrible, especially for a competitive game, to see the same characters high skill or not over and over and over again will just be repetitive.
and this all ofc if you think that they’re are characters in the game that flat out take less skill than others which i don’t think there are, i just think some require different sets of skills than others
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Gotta have heroes that will keep you honest. There’s not that many maps where they’re really good to play and I think that’s ok. I think it should be the goal to have maps and comps that encompass all sorts of playstyles and that being good involves being able to play in or around all of them.
The argument that sniper play shouldn’t exist is as valid as saying brawl or dive shouldn’t exist. There are plenty valid fans of poke and sniper play, maps to encourage that type of play and comps that can execute it. Circuit may be the new KR for fans of poke heroes and sniper 1v1s and that’s okay.
I can discuss if any individual heroes are overpowered as objectively as I can but the question if their playstyle should exist or not isn’t up for debate for me.
im fine with being one shotted, but it has to be a rarity in the game otherwise the flow of the game is killed the problem is widow can one shot someone almost every second amd it doesn’t take much setup to make that happens all she needs is decent and LOS of your head hitbox, about less than a second and for you to not be a tank, as oppose to say DF who can only do it every 4 seconds, Needs a direct LOS of you, be within like 15m of you, have enough time to charge up the loud and easy to see punch for a whole second and for you to crash into a wall all the while flinging him all the way to you, that’s a lot of risk for the DF and a lot of screw ups the enemy has to make in order for that to happen. Now you might say well one shots are all she brings to the table, and your right but that ability to pick someone off instantly from a fight is veeeery powerful and so she shouldn’t be able to do it so much, a good widow brings value by picking off a high value target, whether it’s a high noon or Zen with Trans, not to be able to get Multi kills
what I don’t get is that these two heroes aren’t the only hero can one shot and why do they always get talked about the most?
Just because its powerful doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist.
Not going to get into your DF comparison because there’s so much difference between them that it doesn’t really make sense to.
Snipers are what teach you that you can’t just run around the map like an idiot. Once you figure that out they aren’t so bad. Most places they’re pretty easy to get on-top of or limit their sightlines.
Yes I understand early picks are tough, but that’s the point of poke isn’t it? To beat you before the brawl. Its fundamental and trust me they don’t like being dove but that doesn’t mean dive shouldn’t exist or be so powerful into poke.
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if you are playing any character and are actually hiding from her instead of attacking her… you are probably not playing it right.
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The hypocrisy in this is outstanding. You did great.
Let me address your post according to the points you made.
- Yes, I understand different games have different requirements. i.e. snipers that have fall-off or travel distance have a much longer range to shoot from, snipers in games like CoD have an insta-kill essentially on body shots, etc. I am talking about Widow in the context of Overwatch. Having all of these in Overwatch is what makes her strong. Having no real downside aside from “I can’t hit my shots” in the context of Overwatch is not a real downside. Grapple on a cooldown is not a downside when it provides free positioning/escape, and other heroes have cooldowns, too.
- “Constantly taking it out of context”? I made two posts about this in this thread, please tell me where it’s “constant” when it’s only out of 2 instances lol.
- I say this from the perspective of having put in over 100 hours on Widow. With 175 HP, she was still strong albeit struggled because of 2 barriers. Most barriers removed and 1 less tank while simultaneously buffing her HP does not make much sense to me.
This isn't a 'double standard'. There are other issues with other snipers from other games, but the ones you listed have downsides that make sense. What is Widow's? It used to be a slightly lower health pool so that they had to play more cautiously, but that's gone now.
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well it’s because they can do it the most often and from the safest position, with almsot no time to react or notice asboppose to a rocket punch or Dva bomb
I’ve never said there was nothing wrong with one shots but they’re far too frequent and require thebleast amount of mistakes, all it takes for you to stick your head out in a snipers FOV which usually most of the battlefield including the flank routes
i used DF as an example of one done right, other something that can’t happen often and a lot of things have to go right in order for the DF to get the one shot
Unless one is blind, or lying to oneself, it s very clear that some heroes are indeed becoming “irrelevant” or “niche” the higher you go.
And as cruel as it might sound, certain die hard fanbases are, irrelevant, in the grand scheme of thing.
And considering this is based on fps flatform, and the game is heading more towards fps direction. Particular skillsets will have more values than the others. This game is never meant to be equal where an aimbot skill has the same values of some combo/fighting skill where you can hit a perfect keystroke sequences.
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Because most players cant play Widow and Hanzo or be consistent with them. So they resent the ones who can and think it s unfair.