but… it’s not even 6v6…
it’s 5v5 still…
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Just cause you played this on repeat…
I played 1 game (212, until I swapped off support to 221 because the Ashe was doing nothing) then it tried to put me in a ‘waiting’ lobby on New Junk C*ty, which I promptly left before even the setup phase.
Just reminds me why I don’t play OQ as the main mode, and only as a vacation after stomps with bad teammates. In actuality I like the stronger structure, but also just give us 222 to test with; this seems completely pointless.
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They don’t.
Sure their total health will decrease, but that’s really about it. Tanks were never going to be on the same level of Damage-role heroes. That defies the very concept of what a Tank is (not just in MMOs, but Overwatch as well).
Tanks in Overwatch will still be strong enough to push any individual Damage-role hero out, resist all their damage or significantly curtail it. This was the case with GOATS, and it was the case in 2/2/2 and why they switched to a 5v5 for OW2. Going back to that 6v6 situation is going to end up basically the same as it was in OW1. Only now, you’re going to have Tanks with all the built crowd control resistances that they gained in OW2; and perhaps even more pronounced since there will be more double the amount of crowd control available now.
Always was.
Blizzard isn’t balancing based on the roles. They are deliberately sticking the templates they made back in OW1 before Overwatch launched. Those templates are the problem, and they will continue to be the problem until they acknowledge they’re the source of the problems.
Anyone with a brain called this
Playing an extra tank will always be superior to playing an extra dps cus they just do everything dps do but better, and playing solo support is literally suicide.
2-1-2 is the only way a format like this can ever work.
Tanks simply are just too powerful for you to not want to run as many as you possibly can. A lot of support heroes physically cannot solo heal an entire team so you will nearly always need to run 2 of them. dps is always the role that gets sidelined and an extra tank can just do what a dps does but WAY more
Just shows that the role limits are wrong.
- 6v6 with 2max-6max-2max would be fine
- 5v5 with 1max-5max-2max would be fine
Most boring qp hack so far yeah, it’s always Rein Zarya every match, just like how it was in OW1. I’m all for 6v6 but with one tank max, or up to 4, limiting it to two is perpetually ruined if they’re gonna keep this Rein Zarya combo untouched again
I don’t feel that a limit two 6v6 mode would work. It’s already daft forcing one player to pick tank in this mode. Expecting two people to go tank in 6v6 just isn’t a good idea. It’s going to cause throwers and leavers, like it did last time we saw it in QP, back in 2019.
In fact, I think that all of the upcoming modes have a fatal flaw of one sort or another. In limit two 5v5, it’s that there can be situations where one dude gets forced to go tank; in limit three 6v6, that 303 comps will be possible; 222 RQ, well, we’ve been down that road already; Kingmaker’s an unknown but I’d guess that balancing the solo role buff is an impossible undertaking.
My feeling is that this mode is probably the best candidate to replace regular OQ, if that’s what’s going to happen. But I hope they rethink min one/max three for the 6v6 version and instead go with two tank max, two support max, no limit on DPS.
My god, reading comprehension is in the gutter. I mean that in a proper 6v6 balanced setup, it’d be like Original Overwatch where the tanks are about half the power of what they are now. Every single Tank got a massive buff between Overwatch 1 and Overwatch 2. Those changes need to be reverted for proper 6v6.
I mean the community wants role lock 2-2-2, so we’re gonna get role lock 222. Because it’s Blizzard, they need to try a bunch of pointless crap until they just test that, and God only knows how things will be balanced.
They can’t balance 5v5, why does anyone think they’ll be able to balance 222? Regardless, I’d prefer an unbalanced 222 vs 5v5 any day of the week, if for nothing else to get a longer TTK (because as a tank main I can easily lower TTK by playing Hog).
Regardless of any changes, the OW2 community isn’t the OW1 community so it’ll need time to adjust. People play incredibly selfishly in my lobbies already, so who knows how this is going to go. All said, I prefer a team game vs a solo fragfest dps wet dream. The reason I started playing OW1 was because it wasn’t that.
At any rate, this is maybe my fav patch note/dev update so far:
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I don’t think these experiments are pointless because the community can demand 222 RQ all it wants, but it was unsustainable the last time around, and even 122 RQ seems unsustainable despite only needing half the tanks. We just don’t have enough players willing to tank and it seems futile to base the game’s foundations on there being enough tanks to keep the queues healthy. I’d say that it makes a lot of sense to look for another solution, rather than go back and pray like heck that 222 RQ magically works this time around.
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It saddens me that they thought they could do this without real reworks to hero kits. We already knew and have been telling them for 2 years now that OQ is a completely broken mess with tanks dominating even with the health nerf. IDK why they thought this would function any differently. Every match will just be 2-1-2.
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These things are not unrelated. I also forgot to mention, I don’t actually care at all about DPS queue times or mostly ‘their enjoyment’ of the game when you have heroes like Widow in the roster. IMO either all the roles need to be equally (un)fun, or I’m glad to main Sombra and never tank again (slight hyperbole).
But tanking sucks BECAUSE dps are having too much fun, imo. It boils down to that. No amount of buffing tanks in 122 will fix that. They kinda built tanks to suck minus maybe Hog and Ball. Now we have JQ and Ram (and Mauga). I think the reality is because DPS is the big pool and because the game is designed for them to have the most fun/changes are often made to enhance their fun, tank will never be as popular as it could/should.
Yeah, cause the game panders to DPS/Supps over tanks for the vast majority. I’m not for deleting the role but I guess I’d cope if they did.
I would tank every single game in every single mode on Ball and be happy if it could be enjoyable, but tanking in OW2 is abysmal and eats at your soul. I haven’t even been able to enjoy 3 tank games in a row in this format whereas in OW1 I could tank all night (while playing more games) and have a blast. That’s a fundamental difference and I can’t really tell you the solution other than trying 222 and hoping it’s good.
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counterpoint OP
2 years of 5v5 shows how bad it can be. Let’s see how things develop eh
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If anything, this QP mode shows how crucial some roles are compared to others.
2-1-2 feels like the most safe composition. 1-2-2 feels ok because we’re used to it at this point, but 2-2-1 is just unplayable.
Health changes, sure. Damage changes? No. The only changes to damage came because of health increases. Otherwise, most Tank changes didn’t really do much.
You could probably see Rein losing one charge of his Firestrike, but him losing his ability to stop Charge on a whim? Probably not.
Defensive abilities? Yeah those will see adjustments, obviously. But you’re not going to see core changes to the relative power of Tanks when the experimental comes.
You’re missing the fact that Tanks were specifically designed to ignore the defensive abilities of other Tanks. Reinhardt does not care whether D.va puts up her Defense Matrix or not, he can still charge, and still swing his hammer to ignore it. And D.va has no reload mechanic on her Meka, so she’ll always output enough damage to break Rein’s barrier faster than any Damage-role or Support-role hero. That is a fact. Winston will not care about any defensive abilities by opposing Tanks, because Tesla ignores it, and armor. And that’s unlikely to change.
Meanwhile, every single Damage-role hero is going to remain impacted (heavily), by the defensive abilities of every single tank. And now that there is going to be two of them on the team, that means that the Damage-role is going to have to find ways to get through all that defensive power again. And Supports are still going to have better choices for pouring their resources into than the Damage-role.
So Tanks will see reduced defensive power, and I can certainly see Blizzard trying very hard to find ways so that Tanks can’t coordinate and rotate defensive abilities so frequently (ala GOATS, ala Double-Barrier, ala Brawl).
But Tanks won’t see damage decreases, tank mechanics will still persist. Rein will still be able to pierce barriers with Firestrike, They will still have the cheapest ultimates on the team. They may lose their headshot reduction passive, but will probably retain their crowd control resistances and duration reductions. Barriers total health numbers will shrink, but barriers won’t be removed. Area effect and crowd control from Tanks will still be there, still be just as effective. Tanks will still be mechanically easy to use, still have area effect attacks. Still kill in three swings or four seconds or less. That’s not going to change.
Blizzard will make those adjustments, but it’s not going to solve the fundamental issue with Tanks being so fundamentally broken in competitive games. It will not happen. The concept doesn’t work outside of an MMO, and it never has.
The initial proposal and mode will be a “pseudo open-queue” with a limit of three per role. So we will see things like a three-tank, three-support teams akin to GOATS, we’ll be able to see similar compositions form akin 2/2/2. The question will be whether or not the playerbase would be will to form a 2/2/2 composition or a GOATS composition, or simply run whatever they want; 3 Damage, 1 Tank, 2 Supports, or 3 Damage, 2 Tanks, 1 Support. It’ll be up to them, and will run the numbers to see which combinations are more popular and go from there.
This is just an experiment. So no real changes just yet.
So far, I’ve had standard 1/2/2s, and 2/2/1s; with still reticent Supports and other heroes not being able to muster the skill to do their jobs or even understand the setups. The game still have a very poor explanation or instruction of what the mode is, and player simply won’t read or understand the mechanics or changes going in.
I’ve done it, and won games; but I’m a far more competent Support than most of my team’s even more dedicated Supports.
No. If you played 6v6 before they were basically what’s currently in this QP hacked.
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They didn’t even try to balance the tanks for this mode. It’s not even close to what it would be like if 6v6 was in the game.
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0 effort was put into it, this just isnt a real test.
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It is what its supposed to be, Zarya gets free energy from the MT, usually Rein, while Ana keeps both tanks alive effortlessly, the other support just plays DPS. Back to this unfun broken meta from OW1.
This event actually proves 5v5 just doesnt work lol
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