Guess I'll work on another idea


#23

Because it gives Brigitte a drastically smaller window of time in which she can act before Tracer Recalls out?

I’m not sure how that’s difficult to understand. If you reduce the opportunity for someone to act, then they become less reliable. If they’re less reliable, that means the opposition in turn has more opportunity to act.


#24

As somebody who pays a lot of attention to netcode issues (I.e. Roadhog hooks) I don’t think the netcode works that way.

Since the start of a stun is what matters when it comes to mobility canceling a stun, not the end.


#25

Is it really that difficult to press two buttons that barely have to be aimed?

Like I get the lag concern, but this is just confusing to me.


#26

You beat me to it and my question who is this nerf for? Tracer? Genji or players who don’t want to swap to counter? I really don’t see the point of it outside of the barrier tank concept.


#27

It’s not that it’s difficult. It’s that she literally cannot do her combo in the 0.3 seconds you are allotting. Tracer will have recalled by then and Brigitte just wasted a cooldown. Probably two if she had already pressed Shift for the Whip Shot.

The only thing I see an issue with these changes you are suggesting is that stun duration. Maybe see just how long it takes for her to swing once and then WS after a SB and make that the duration, sure. But anything shorter than that makes her an unreliable Tracer counter.


#28

The one you quoted is for tank players.

The one here is players in general.

Trying to make it so that there’s the minimum amount of stun needed for killing Tracer.

So that it’s more of a combo ability and less of a stun ability.


#29

But why? That’s the real question here? All I see is that this game still balance around poor reflexes players, Tracer and Genji.


#30

I mean yeah, the numbers can be adjusted so that the combo goes smoothly.

But the idea is to reduce the stun duration as small as is necessary.


#31

Compelling argument. Really. Totally disproves what I said.

The lag concern alone really should be justification to not support such a change. But here’s the deal: 0.3 seconds is an incredibly short window. In fact, it’s about 0.1 seconds longer than the reaction time for a human to respond to an anticipated visual stimulus. In real terms, that means that even the most marginal hesitation = Tracer Recalls. And, because of the way Tracer’s Recall benefits from favor-the-defender, Brigitte cannot hit Tracer as she Recalls–she must do it amply beforehand. In theory, a “skilled” Brigitte could do this combo, but let’s also keep in mind that the same could be said of a “skilled” McCree or Roadhog–and we both know how effective they are in dealing with Tracer (unless you’re in pretty low tiers, not very).

Moreover, on a point that I haven’t even touched yet, Brigitte is about to get a huge nerf. It’s not like some 1 second SB nerf–this upcoming nerf is pretty enormous. And you’re suggesting more changes that would nerf her against her intended counters, and make her stronger against her “unintended” counters

People already gripe and complain about Brigitte’s damage, and it’s miserably low. I can’t imagine the whining if she actually had semi-decent damage.


#32

Because stuns are fundamentally unfun.
Because it literally removes all control you have on a character.
Especially instant ones that are long with low risk.

So if you could get the same impact, but for a shorter stun. It would feel a lot better to play against.

Not to mention, would be less useful for GOATs type comps.


#33

I really really don’t think the end of a stun has any impact on fouling up favor the shooter mechanics.

That said, how short of a stun duration would you say would be comfortable?

Keeping in mind McCree has 0.7sec and has to headshot.


#34

If any CC bothers me in the game it will be Ana’s sleep dart. Stun is one thing, but that can be countered very easy. I just don’t like the fact that this stun is just going to benefit other heroes all over again for the sake of their playstyle than adapt. It’s like when they took Symmetra auto lock on beam away.

The stun is a 1 vs 1 contender than group.


#35

You’re correct–but Tracer’s abilities benefit from some pretty powerful favor the defender mechanics which do screw with it. Unless you want to take those mechanics out, then to create a reliable counter to Tracer, you have to overcorrect. And taking those mechanics out for Tracer makes her pretty bad against other heroes, which is why they were added in the first place.

I think the current stun is fine… Brigitte gets substantially less benefit for using it than other heroes with a stun. She can only guarantee a kill on Tracer or an already-injured hero, whereas Doomfist and Hog can insta any squishie, and McCree can combo into killing nearly any tank in the game.

This is actually a very good example of why lowering the stun duration is bad. McCree is pretty inconsistent against Tracer–and while he does have to headshot, at close range, it’s not that hard to land a crit. But when you’re dealing with an absurdly mobile hero who gets mechanical protection from your attacks, it is very hard. And you’re proposing less than half that time–yeah, even for just a “hit,” that’s kinda unreasonable. You’re basically comparing a half-second window to crit to a 0.1 second window to hit.

Would a half second window work better? Yes, but I think it still suffers the same problems of being less reliable against Tracer and more powerful against other heroes.


#36

I mean, we are reducing the number of actions by a third.

One would think at a minimum that would mean 0.66sec would probably be excessive.

Especially when I am not sure if the flail swing instantly damages or has to reach the middle point. Like Rein hammer.


#37

So I started thinking about it a bit, and I’m thinking 0.7s would probably be the lowest we could reasonably go. At least for an initial change. That puts her stun at the same length as McCree’s while still giving her time to react. It puts her at 0.6s for one swing, and a Whip Shot immediately after. It’d still be cutting it close before Tracer can Recall, but if we’re going to change the duration, this would be one of the only changes that I would entertain.


#38

Dunno, the bash and the rocketflail are instant damage. But the swing is a laggy startup.

And I’m not sure if the swing can be animation cancelled.


#39

See point about low-mobility heroes. This is still an unnecessary buff against them. You’re basically increasing her burst DPS pretty drastically across the board, at the expense of being reliable against Tracer–which her anti-Tracer reliability has been and is being actively crippled.

No amount of tinkering with the stun duration changes that. There’s no need to change the combo right now. It’s easy and reliable with comparatively low reward to other stun combos, and its temporal availability is on the lower end while the spatial availability is the lowest of the stun combos.


#40

That’s the thing, it’s easy and high reward. Just instantly stunning a hero for 1 second, with no damage, but almost no risk or skill needed, would still be high reward.


#41

What do you think about this change instead of the current nerf? TLDR bash stuns targets with less health than brig but only short knockback for anyone with more health at the time of the bash.


#42

I mean it would work, but I feel like that’s almost too specific to Tracer.