Can we please keep the hero balance/bug discussion in a separate topic? The original post has nothing to do with the hero balance or technical functionality of any specific hero, now while Scott Mercer did take a quick moment to address that there were bug fixes for Sombra on the way. I suggest discussing them in the PTR Feedback forum appropriately and not derail this topic.
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yeah, I’ve noticed this phenomenon even above the performance SR cutoff. If its intentional you think they’d mention it?
Define “some” Sombra bugs. Is it the important stuff like Hack breaking without losing line of sight and Hack randomly switching targets or is it just cosmetic stuff?
Awesome post. Maybe I’ll try 6 stacking for that slight advantage. Anyway, can you give us any ETA on when 1.25 will go live? Thanks! 
If the trend continues I asume that said bugs are not the crippeling line of sight bugs but the ones they introduced for in with the PTR itself. You know: the cooldown bug and the hacking healthpack to so it becomes red bug.
There has been no official word past this last dev comment (click here). I am personally hopeful for a launch by next Tuesday.
First, this is excellent information regarding groups. One of my concerns was that I’d play against groups that were just monumentally better than mine - and that often felt the case. Good to know there are hard statistics that prove otherwise. ![:slight_smile:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=5" ":slight_smile:")
Second,
I understand that balance and bug fixes are not your area of expertise. Is there any way that someone who does take care of those things can confirm what will be happening with Sombra? Because she is in such an awful state that a few bug fixes don’t seem like something to celebrate… ![:confused:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/confused.png?v=5" ":confused:")
Third, would there be a possibility of seeing a history of your matches and match-ups?
With all due respect Mr. Scott,
2 of the bug fixes on Patch 1.25 were caused by the same patch when symmetra rework hit PTR.
Only one bug was fixed that was effected on the live version.
I would highly suggest that Avoided Players never be able to group up with Avoidee.
If you don’t implement this, they’ll eventually find out when they try to queue??
I don’t think the Looking for Group system allows a player to see a group listing if there is a Avoid this Teammate conflict. Though I have never tested it.
But only 16% players don’t group up
be cool if it did. Consider this. I invite Joe and Joe invites Bob. Bob is on my Avoid Player as Teammate list…
I will test it tonight when I get home, I have an alternate account specifically for testing which I can use to find out.
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Alternatively, I invite Joe. I invite Bob. Joe has Bob Avoided. Thank you.
Thank you for acknowledging them. I hope you continue fixing more of them in future patches, because right now they are the main reason Sombra is not performing so well in the game.
The best thing about LFG is none of your teammates will play unbalanced or broken heroes. And you will also have time to debate such issues before a match.
These types of dev communication are really great, they help clear up misinformation and stop the guessing.
I’d love the devs to make similar posts about how well the new endorsement system runs when it goes live, how well the report system has been functioning, what the actual popularity level of arcade modes are, how well custom games are going, how balanced some of the maps are, how the balanced heros are based on blizz data rather than 3rd party sites, etc.
Just a lot of little topics that I feel the community would love to hear more about.
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I personally thought that if you were in a group, it tweaked your SR gain/loss based on the GROUP/AVERAGE SR rating. Scott says that if you’re in a six-stack with ~2800 players, it’s the same calculated SR gain and loss as if you went solo:
Quote given for his wording if needed.
But, instead of just 6 players at exactly 2800 SR, what if you’re- and this is purely hypothetical on my part, although it may be an occuring thing- in a group with some friends who are at varying SR and tiers, maybe… low Gold to low Diamond, and you’re Platinum? I already know that it will probably find a match based on the group rating, but the SR given on a win is a different story.
Will it use the group/average SR rating to give out SR?
If they average out at Platinum, the Gold players get a little more for being able to play consistently against players ~700-800 SR above them- assuming this averages out at ~2800- while the Diamond players just get a little less or a fairly normal amount, considering they’re just above Platinum, and not too far from that 2800 considering they’re low Diamond? You yourself would get a normal amount, considering it averages out at your tier, right?
This is what I believed for a time, but with this post, I’m starting to question the system and how it works a bit more, especially with the “predicted win rate” coming into play.
Will it go by rank majority in the group?
Say, if there are more Diamond players than Golds in said hypothetical group, will the SR rewards be tweaked in favor of the Gold players, and against(?) the Diamond players to be fair?
If there were more Diamond players, I can see the Gold players getting more SR considering they’re playing at a considerably higher tier and their predicted winrate, along with their MMR would be fairly low. The Diamond players and their SR gain, I’m not too sure about… a little more? 
Vice versa however, it would be the Gold players getting just a little more and the Diamond players getting less SR, considering they would be playing at a lower rank with a higher MMR than expected at Platinum…
You yourself would, again, get a normal amount of SR gain, considering it still would average out around Platinum along with your MMR, low or high not being too relevant when it concerns you. A Diamond or Gold player would be affected more if they were playing at 2500 or 2900 respectively.
The group rating also shows the rank icon for the highest person while the actual SR rating could be far under what the icon is meant to represent, so that only serves to confuse me more. 
This probably seems really specific, but this applies to all of the ranks that are subject to the 1000 SR range requirement. Silver players with Platinums, Bronze players with Golds, either can fit. I just used Diamond because I consider it just around mid-tier, while also being part of the upper tiers somewhat. I also heavily based this around winning a competitive game, although this quesiton can apply to a loss as well.
Where does MMR come into this?
There’s also the fact that Scott says you’ll gain/lose SR in that 2800 six-stack the same way as a solo queue, but in solo queue, you’re matched with people based on MMR, and very loosely on SR, from what I remember seeing and experiencing.
I personally have gotten full Master games while being the only Diamond in them, at 3300, normal hours of the day, no ridiculous queue times to raise my priority for a game in the matchmaking system. From what Scott is saying, I should be matched with players very close to my rank, but that’s not the case.
(To be clear, I have reached Master so I’m more likely to get these kinds of matches now, but these instances were before I had ever gotten to it for the first time.)
Is it the predicted winrate system trying to maintain 50% that’s throwing me, or other players, against significantly higher/lower players? He did say that it would try and stay close to a 50% predicted winrate, and while the percentages he gave are very close to that, he did imply that a game can be at 40% or above predicted winrate, at a max of 60%. While he does make it clear that you will get more SR on a win with lower predicted winrate, the loss is still 60% probable. With the 60% predicted winrate, you get less SR on a win, where losing is 40% probable.
That’s all fine and dandy…
…But, why doesn’t the predicted winrate system wait a little longer to find a fairer match? Is it the queue system at fault for raising you in priority the longer you’re in queue, or is it just finding the first match it can within the 40-60% predicted winrate restriction?
Also when he says 2800, does he also mean that they’re extremely close in MMR? Because if so, then it would make a lot more sense for them to get the same SR gain/loss whether it be in a six-stack or with six-solo queuers. I’m making the assumption that predicted winrate, after he gave a short explanation of how it works…
…affects your SR just as much as your MMR does when matched up against higher ranked/lower ranked opponents. Higher MMR+Predicted winrate against the enemy, lower SR Gain, and vice versa, right?
I’m personally just a little lost on this, probably just missing something obvious, but it would be nice to have some clarification on it. I tried to explain my confusions about it, and I’ve gotten a little more insight onto what goes on to start a competitive match, and what is taken into account for its end- and the rewards given- thanks to this post. I’m glad that Scott took the time to type out this point to give us a little more insight into the mode and how LFG affects it.
Looking forward to the patch!
TL;DR: For all my silver stars (nearly gold frame, too) I’m actually confused by competitive because of all the hidden stuff going on in the background, although a liiiiiiiitle more has been cleared up for me here. Thank you for communicating with us Scott, and sorry that I absolutely can’t figure out this system for the life of me;;
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Are you ever going to discuss the problem in matchmaking role wise?
Getting 4 or even more support mains or whatever role mains is NOT balanced at all especially if the enemy team has a balanced team comp (for example 2 supp/2 dps/2 tank players) lol.
It literally is sometimes so frustrating to play when you instantly know that youre not going to win a match.
Surely you dont always lose but theres a 90% change of loss if you get 2 or more onetricks who onetrick the same character and dont flex at all.
And no its not a onetricking problem at this point.
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Now tell us how you are fixing Symmetras primary that got destroyed in the haphazard exploit fix now requiring around 300% more accuracy than original ptr weapon and doing hardly any damage to armor. Or her secondary which you can’t use as an explosive projectile because the splash damage is always around 50% or less than what it’s supposed to do. Or her completely underwhelming ult especially given she is supposed to be getting a dps rework. Or her tele which takes way too long to use after deployed, you can’t use it to rescue teammates like you guys said it was supposed to be used for. Or lack of extra shield health or passive ability now that you took away all her survivability.