It’s wild that nearly every passive is directed at countering the Support role and yet people want even more power in the Support role. Blows my mind.
Faster activation for self-heal is a support-only passive.
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i main support, and our passive is borderline op.
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I guess we just disagree.
I mean, I’m not talking about gutting characters, but otherwise, we just disagree.
We are already starting to see what you are talking about happening in the game now and I’m not for it.
More and more characters are getting abilities where they can just do everything or just about everything.
Characters that cleanse themselves and/or get shields and/or become invulnerable and/or get out of jail free and/or has more mobility of some kind and it’s already getting old. Hell there are characters that have all of those things in their kit and almost all are newer characters.
Kiriko can cleanse herself with two different abilities, one of which is teleport, which is a get out of jail free ability, she has an ability that makes her/others invulnerable briefly and also heals on top of it ,she can climb walls (additional mobility).
Venture can go invulnerable when they dig, they get shields just by simply using either of their abilities. Drill Dash alone does damage, adds shields, plus increased mobility, plus booping all at once. One ability. One button push.
Compare that to older characters that have a similar-ish play style like Reaper. Yeah, he can go invulnerable and he can teleport. Teleporting at least leaves him momentarily vulnerable (teleporting isn’t instant and he can’t take any action when he starts the teleport).
Reaper can’t both wrath and teleport at the same time (Venture can burrow and then dash away underground with increased movement speed). He doesn’t get high increased speed or shields or booping. He can’t even teleport in any direction as it has to be on a surface, meanwhile Venture can drill dash in any direction. Straight up if they want. Plus Venture’s other ability allows them to pop out of the ground to get to most high ground as well (while doing damage).
Both Venture and Kiriko have abilities that cover a ton of different utility each on top of having a lot of overlap with their own, other ability. If you mismanage your cool downs and fail at getting to high ground with drill dash, no problem, you have another ability that can achieve it. If you fail at escaping with burrow, no problem, you still have drill dash that can either boost you away while your underground or at least help you get further away when you pop out of the ground.
We just don’t need to give each character all of the things to make sure they are viable in every scenario.
Yes, you can still play against these characters that are stacked with tons of utility and are great in all or almost all scenarios, but it’s just not needed and it makes mistakes that should be punishable, no longer nearly as punishable.
Characters used to be designed with strengths and weaknesses. Zen has high damage output, can discord enemies, but he pays for it with having the lowest mobility a character can have (he’s slow, he has no vertical mobility) and a single target healing.
This is what makes the game fun. You not only had to play your character’s strengths but cover their weaknesses with your own skill and when you play against other players/characters, they have weaknesses that can be exploited if you are good enough.
I don’t mind when a couple characters have some of these abilities with multiple utility as long as they pay for it somewhere else in their kit, but if you start trying to round all the characters off, I think you just end up having to give all the characters all of the things and then it doesn’t matter who you choose, you’re essentially just playing the same character with a slightly different flavor and against other players playing very similar characters where the weaknesses are covered by the game rather than that player’s skill.
Might as well give everyone wall climb and added shields and more mobility and burst damage abilities and invulnerability and cleansing abilities and hit scan primary fire for long range and can switch to projectile damage for closer higher damage and teleport and can fly, because this is how you can make sure all characters are viable for all maps, with all team comps and against all team comps.
If your favorite character isn’t viable for some scenario, swap or get better at that character, but lets not paint a massive brush stroke across every character so they are all very similar and replacing player skills with character design.
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For sure, guys. Surely, one more passive and the game is saved!
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They’ve always had a passive, arguably one of the strongest until it got slightly nerfed.
Yes everyone has self heal, but support self heal is way stronger than the two other roles. Support self heal is the reason Ana is allowed to exclusively go for offensive nades instead of saving it for self heal. It’s why Moira doesn’t have to waste heal orbs on herself, it’s why supports don’t have to play neck-and-neck with each other to provide healing when the other can’t heal themselves.
You have no clue how much offensive support utility is enabled by their passive and frankly it’s scary to think people with so little understanding of the game still have a voice as loud as yours.
Okay, but the DPS and tanks passives are absolutely better and if you could choose which one to use, almost nobody would select the support passive.
And here I am in favor of removing passives altogether lol.
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I also agree with you and mostly because I am sick of the random hate any role gets for a passive.
After the dps passive got buffed, yes. But that is also just dumb, and we shouldn’t counter passive creep with more passive creep.
Removing all passives, and doing them on a hero-by-hero basis (WHEN NEEDED, BLIZZ… not just for the sake of handing out participation medals to heroes that dont need passives) is the way to go.
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What about a speed boost when taking damage?
What is annoying is when the team is dead and you need to run away you very rarely have the speed to get to safety…
I think we should remove all passives except for self-heal on everyone. Maybe kee CC tank one and that’s it. However, if everyone else is going to get tons of passives, support should too. +20% to healing if we don’t get hit for x amount of time.
sry alt accs dont get a say in this
The support passive is the most powerful of the three. Easily.
Any DPS withe the support passive becomes an absolute terror. Tracer or Sombra with that passive… yikes.
Rein or Dva with the support passive. Omg.
wanna trade with the dps passive? I take the support one. I don’t need the dps one, because you will apply it for me while I enjoy faster selfheal. win-win
I am also willing to trade with the tank passive
Non-sense. There are like 1/3 of the dps roster that would be better with faster self-regen activation. For tanks like ball, doom and h og, support passive would be better than dps passive as well.
And of course support heroes are still better off with faster self-regen activation.
No. The DPS passive is objectively stronger because the sustain in this game is outlandish and the support passive literally cannot activate if you land damage. There are a few characters that have inconsistent damage and might prefer the support passive if the player sucks. But that’s irrelevant and not indicative of power.
In fact, the DPS passive is so powerful that the meta would revolve around not bringing the passive because everyone else brought the passive. Albeit, nobody would trust their teammates to shoot at the correct target and would likely still bring the passive after getting burned a few times.
The only reason people have yet to figure it out is because DPS players are unbelievably bad at target prioritization. You could literally climb just by shooting at whoever your tank walks at but they STILL cannot figure that out all while complaining about how overtuned tanks are.
Several supports have personal passives. Mercy has Sympathetic Recovery. Lucio has Wall Ride. Kiriko has Wall Climb. Brigitte has Inspire.
Actually of the most passive abilities in the game, Supports tend to have the most.
That was not the original goal for Overwatch. And they had the opportunity to adjust and change this with OW2, but missed that opportunity. So only Tanks and some Supports get to maintain their generalist designs.
Most everything in the post is what Overwatch aimed for, originally. They just had the problem of specializing the Damage-role too much and building Tanks and Supports to be more rounded than they needed to be. But, again, for healing others and the way they wanted healing to work, many of the Supports needed some core tools that they all shared.
And FWIW, there’s still a few heroes in Overwatch that function as generalists beyond the Tank-role. Soldier is a fairly good example of this.
Problem was, that the individual passives weren’t providing enough value to the entire role, and so certain heroes either felt lacking because they lacked the traits other heroes had, and suffered, or you had an entire role that was largely irrelevant because they didn’t provide anything unique.
Take Overwatch 1’s Reinhardt and Roadhog. How does Roadhog compete with Reinhardt’s Steadfast passive? Orisa and Zarya have abilities that reduce or negate the effect of knockbacks and other displacements, but Roadhog and Reinhardt had no such luck. Reinhardt gets that Steadfast passive, but Roadhog doesn’t. How would Roadhog stand equal to Reinhardt, Zarya and Orisa without such a tool available to him? Do we remove one of his abilities or further stack more traits to Take a Breather? And what about new Tanks, how do we fix the problems of crowd control and displacements against them without inserting core abilities that limit what we can design for Tank abilities?
Making a universal passive in this case, made sense.
No. Every passive in the game isn’t designed to counter the Support-role. Certainly not Wall Climb, or Reaping, or Ironclad, or Total Mayhem.
More than half of this forum barely understand how damage and healing calculations work, let alone how Blizzard arrives at the numbers they do.
Never did, RMB was more than adequate for self-healing.
They did this, it didn’t work.
It really isn’t that powerful, especially considering that so much of what the Damage-role doesn’t bring comparatively to the Tank and Support roles.
Has little to do with this, and more to do with the difficulty of the Damage-role to actually land shots. Even after bulking up the hitboxes for the role, there are still a ton of players who can’t land their shots on non-Tank targets. And the Support-role heroes still have even larger, faster traveling, projectiles.
I still see Tanks dominating the scoreboards by several metrics. Part of this has to do with Supports not healing or support the rest of their team that isn’t a Tank; part of this also has to do with how easy it is to play an aggressive Tank over other roles, too.
That doesn’t change any of what I said.
Some dps and tanks would be more effective with faster heal activation.
Supports are better off with faster heal activation.
Because we play against tanks that actually know how to play tank, instead of staying out in the open, rely on double pocket from supports and then complain about dps passive. Tanks are overtuned. It was done on purpose to attract players to play tank. Let’s not pretend balance was ever an issue with tank shortage.
What the dps passive does is really just punish players who are too exposed with no los to hide.
Well, it was once upon a time…then they decided to give it to everyone for some reason.
But I don’t think the Supports need anymore passives, selfheal is fine.