Genji main mentality

General Discussion
101

A power of an hero is based on how strong he is relative to other heroes, a hero could be the top pick than a year later become a throw pick without him being changed, and even if he gets buffed who could still be considered bad, power is relative.

It doesn’t matter how many times you buff an hero if he is still bad.

It’s not about the hero, it’s about the hypothetical situation…

lol.
He literally was meta, you not having the data because it was more than 6 months ago doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

It’s not contradicting, if he gets 13.5 final blows which 4-5 (an estimate since blade kills include elims as well) of them are from blade, that leaves us with around 9 final blows, which is ~1.5 times more than blade kills, the duration of blade is 6s, usually you will get 3-4 ultimates per game, so your overall blade uptime is ~24s if we are being generous, the average time of a match is 10m-12m so about ~30s of your match is with blade and the other is with your normal kit so around ~10m
10m*60s = 600s , 30s/600s = 1/20 = 0.05
So you are being with blade for 5% of your match.
In that 5%, you are doing 30% of your final blows.
that’s not good at all, and when you take into consideration that I was extremely in your favor with those numbers, and that Genji is the type of hero that mainly finishes kills, it looks even worst.
any way you flip it his power is mainly in (nano)blade.

It’s about uptime as well not only the number of kills.

Eliminations are you participating in a kill, you can deal as little as 1 damage and get an elim, that’s why I use final blows more than I use elims, even though it isn’t perfect as well, but it is at least better.
And again, you seem to forget that the uptime of his ult is a lot shorter, even by getting one kill per minute, you are essentially doubling the amount of kills he gets during blade, that’s not because blade is bad it is because it has a lower uptime.

He is doing bad without his ultimate and doing too good with it, balance it out, it’s not that hard.
No one asked for a straight-up buff to him, most Genji mains will tell you what I’ve been saying for a long time, make blade not damage-boostable, and buff his base kit.
it’s called balancing a kit, that is what Genji needs.

but those buffs didn’t change his state, yes he is better, but he is at the same point he was before.

what?

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102

But right now Ashe, Tracer, Widow, Winston, Zarya, etc. are being played and they are not exactly low skill heroes. At least not now that even Ashe got her deserved nerfs.

103

Im a genji main and only some of us think like that. Honestly we just want a power shift because being a blade bot is not fun. Also the main reason why people act like there is no middleground is because when ever he is mid tear he is just a blade bot and can feel like complete garbage to play. One last thing, I see like 1 person asking for genji buffs every other day and every day someone complaining about genji mains or his character itself, were tired of when ever we feel like out character isn’t in the best spot or he feels bad to play some one like you shows up and just calls us stupid and acts like there happy every time the character isn’t in the meta.

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104

Nothing more to say. This guy just described the whole community. Think the same as you Demon.

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105

Then buff main kit and nerf Ult :smiley:

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106

Thing is, Genji, imo, would’ve been fine if he got those buffs. But the devs didn’t even attempt a power shift, they just buffed his main kit. Don’t know what their intentions even were :confused:

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107

Right, I am so confused about it, people told them it was a good move and that he needs some nerfs to blade, and instead of actually listening the just took away the power from the main kit, at this point it just looks like they want him to be a bladebot.

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108

I mean, if that’s what they want him to be then idk what to do, we already know they have zero clue about what heroes should do.

109

I mean, why would you address the problem only to not fix it?
they buffed him because his main kit wasn’t good enough and then over nerfed the part that needed the buff in the first place.

110

And they’ve had far worse nerfs than Genji.

How is that hypothetical situation relevant?

It isn’t.

It’s a red herring.

No, his pickrate was always way WAY lower than genji’s pickrate you use to prove genji isn’t meta.

No I have the data from more than 6 months ago.

I’m referring to how the Wayback Machine doesn’t have data for the first year the game launched.

This is nonsense maths.

You’re exaggerating blade kills and downplaying overall eliminations to exaggerating the difference. You committed the cardinal sin of swapping units. Final blows are NOT the equivalent to eliminations with his ultimate.

Final blows are a different standard for which they cannot be equivocated with Dragon kills.

How is 9 only 1.5x more than 4.5?

And Genji get’s more final blows than other DPS heroes anyway!

Because this is all entirely misleading.

Genji get’s 25 eliminations per game.

Genji get’s 6 “kills” while ulting PER GAME (not per ultimate).

On average 0.96 gold medals PER GAME.

If you want to cite “final blows” then you need to compare with “final blows while ult is active” but you don’t have such data. You have “dragon kills” which isn’t final blows.

This is still way better than Tracer who has only 11.72 “final blows” PER GAME and 2.74 bomb kills PER GAME.

Soldier 76 also has fewer “final blows” and fewer visor kills per game.

Final blows isn’t even a good stat as so many heroes the stat isn’t tracked.

Where it IS tracked Genji still excells!

No. That’s how final blows works.

If someone else reduced a target to 1HP and genji clips then with a shuriken them then Genji get’s the “final blow” credit.

That would be precisely the problem you objected for of if Genji were to “deal as little as 1 damage” and get the credit.

Elimination is a far harder credit to get.

I personally find it very hard to make decisions based on mathematical nonsense.

His ultimate could just get a straight nerf.

Like disable swift-strike while ulting, just as shurikens are disabled while his Ultimate is active. You could still use swift strike to engage and you’ve still got the +30% movement speed, 5m melee reach and your cyber agility but you can’t repeatedly chain kills to reset swift strike.

No special weird exceptions like “ana’s ult gives +50% damage boost EXCEPT in this one weird circumstance even though it doesn’t break any universal rules”

They did change his state, they made his state better

:neutral_face:

:man_facepalming:

111

The problem is there not playing on the same patch as us yet and the league is finished.

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112

They did not. This is why soldier is still bad after the buffs he got, because of the amount of characters. In order to compete with the dlc characters, many characters such as bastion pharah, and other characters who haven’t changed since launch need to be looked at. Their is much more cc then before, and yet genji has no answer, he has no recall, or a passive the gives armor. Theres a reason why hes least picked in top ranks. Just because he stomps bad players who make tons of mistakes doesn’t make him op. Junkrat is a bronze silver stompers but bad at other ranks.

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113

I feel like this is the same feeling hanzo mains get when they hit someone in the chest and don’t get the headshot

114

Genji’s main kit doesn’t need any more buffs on top of the buffs since April of this year.

Genji’s main kit being low RELATIVE to his ultimate doesn’t mean his main kit is weak compared to other heroes.

If his ult needs to be nerfed then just nerf it.

The problem is the nerf that keeps being proposed for blade is a weird arbitrary exception that clearly go against the design ethos of the game. And that is to have Ana’s ultimate damage boost to arbritrarily just not work when applied to Genji… only while he is also ulting.

This tricky arbitrary exception is what devs almost certainly have a rule against in their design document.

I’m not immune to making the same mistakes but I listen to when I’m told they’re wrong.

I proposed that Bastion wouldn’t be healed in some circumstance and I was rightly told that’s a terrible proposal, what a healer does cannot just arbitrarily not work because of a hero specific exception. That’s the important part, the idea that it just doesn’t work because “computer says no”.

If there are ANY exceptions they must be part of ONE universal rule due to a mechanic shared by different heroes.

There are universal rules in Overwatch, how damage bonuses work follow universal rules. How do damage bonuses stack follows universal rules. How HP stacks follows universal rules.

I took into consideration their concerns and adjusted my idea to prevent healing by following the universal rules of temporary armour (orange HP).

There’s no easy way to have damage-boost to not-apply.

The problem isn’t even the extra damage, the problem is genji still having swift strike when that ability is granted to supplement low-damage shurikens. Yet swift0strike is still active during a transformation ultimate where some parts of Genji’s kit are arbitrarily disabled (shurikens and 30-damage quick-melee) but they don’t go the rest of the way.

Just go the rest of the way and disable Swift Strike while Dragonblade is active.

Who did not do what?

He’s not the least picked in GM. He’s picked only 0.6% less than average in GM.

In Masters only 3 DPS heroes are more popular than Genji.

115

How about, DMG buff + Ult to 8sec + Ult not nanoable

Destroys buff bot, but make him overall better. 8sec because without nano dmg blade dmg is low.

116

That means his worse then average, a 0.6% pickrate drop from average means hes not an average character. They have said it before, they balance around GM, so those stats are really the only ones they use. I meant they did not chnge his stats for him to do well. His dps is actually worse then pre buff in June. His damage is garbage compared to any other projectile. Usually projectile has some sort of damage but his is one of the weakest in the game. He does 84 damage body shot if he hits all shirukens, (which is not accurate unless he is very close) which is 4 more damage then lucios amplifier.

117

Gets more than tracer and soldier. Most dps do more final blows than he does. Before you use stats check them at least please. This doesn’t mean that I don’t think he’s fine, but it’s much easier to get picks on most heroes compared to genji, even mccree gets more final blows than genji and he has a terrible winrate. Avg final blows mean really little in the context of balancing.

118

Genjis mains have infiltrated this thread, please find your way to the nearest exit.

119

I did and I’m not wrong. Genji does deal more final blows than those “other heroes” I listed.

I’ve said why final blows are worthless as you can deal any damage to a hero that was reduced to 1HP by other heroes yet get the “final blow” credit.

Agreed.

If there’s any change due it’s to simply disable Swift Strike during his ultimate.

McCree’s ultimate is irredeemably bad.

The best way to use his ult is as a quick-reload. Even trying to use it as intended just isn’t worth it.

120

You want to nerf an hero that has a 1% pickrate, no compensation just a straight up nerf, to a hero that is doing poor in a meta that is designed to help the type of hero he is, that’s a big NO.
I seriously doubt if you actually played Genji before, especially when you bring up disabling dash when using blade, you clearly don’t understand the hero and what he is meant to be, you don’t even understand what people are suggesting before saying it is bad, what are you even arguing for? what is your goal here? do you want Genji to no be in your games? I really don’t understand.

1 Like