Genji isn't in a good place

[RaDiaTE-6603]

@xTeaC-2661

Junkrat is in a bad place because his pickrate is like that of the Titanic.

Everybody bought a ticket on board and then it hit an iceberg and sank?

[xTeaC-2661]

and how deep did it sink?

[RaDiaTE-6603]

I don’t know, I wasn’t on it

[Jam-22606]

@Slice-11723

• Nerf Brigitte
• Give Genji a small buff, maybe make 25 of his health pool armor
• Revert deflect
• Make the next hero be a direct counter to Brigitte

1. Sounds good.
2. Hell naw
3. Heeeelllll nooooooo (means no)
4. This is kinda what Sym is for with her shield melt.

Genji is hard to play effectively , but the amount of his kit that requires questionable aim at best such as his Swift Strike, Dragonblade and Shurikens (hitboxes), means that people who ARE good at him can totally wreck with him, and as long as he has the potential for a 6k Dragonblade in his back pocket, there is no reasonable argument to buff him otherwise he will be just become yet another problem in the game.

[ZenoKagemaru-1424]

@Slice-11723

Nerf Brigitte, arguably this does need to be done but I’ll leave it at that

HFLL no! This doesn’t need to happen at all.

@Slice-11723

Give Genji a small buff

Absolutely not. I just got used to his unwanted face finally anishing for once.

@Slice-11723

Revert deflect

And have him continue to take advantage of designed hitboxes? I think not.

@Slice-11723

Make the next hero be a direct counter to Brigitte

That’s just flatout petty.

[GFoldem-2900]

@Slice-11723

I would give a “B” in terms of grading, which I think is a fair place for people to be. Genji has and still requires skill, he is in a bad place right now I would give him maybe a “C-” or a “D+”

Whom would you rate at B or C at the moment?
Genji is at 7th (GM), 8th (M), 8th (D), 9th (P), 13th (G), 16th (S) and 13th (B) overall pickrate position, with a winrate above 50% at diamond and above (last weeks overbuff statistics on PC), overall he is 10th with 50.4% winrate and is therefore the second most picked DPS hero (after Hanzo).
Everybody knows, that Genji is not the easiest hero, so I am not surprised the winrate improves at higher levels of play.

I would not call him OP at the moment and I think he was not really OP in dive, he was just well above average and therefore the best DPS in dive.
His deflect nerf and the introduction of Brigitte gave his effectiveness a hit and I don’t think he is above average now (at least not a lot), but I don’t see where he would not rank in a B or at least B-/C+ spot.
With wallclimb, double jump and dash he is the most mobile hero, when you look at all 3 dimensions (sure Tracer with her blinks and recall is better suited on a plain field). And with this mobility I don’t see him fall out of Meta completely if he does not see major nerfs.

@Slice-11723

Brigitte isn’t fine, her win rate this week in my level of play is 58.11% and on top of that she is in 77% of games in my level of play, number like that are pretty insane

If I look at the numbers now, I see 58.1% winrate at 5.12% pickrate (averaging in her being present in 61.44% of the games once or in 30.72% in both teams).
I agree that she is a little to strong at the moment if she has support of her team and/or the enemy team does not focus on her, she is close to unkillable, but when she overextends or the enemy team focuses her, she can be killed rather quickly.
Her shieldbash can be used very offensively as she is behind her shield, when she uses it (contrary to flashbang), therefore I find it very disruptive with little counterplay (her shield has “only” 600HP and a team can bring it down before she is close enough in most cases, if they really try). A little dent in either shield health or shield regeneration or the cooldown would make it less frustrating I think.
But neither her regeneration nor her damage seem over the top. Her ultimate seems very strong with the team regeneration in fight and the permanent armor. Contrary to lucios ultimate it is to protect against sustain damage while his protects against burst, but this makes it a lot easier to use and still very effective.
To be honest I would not mind, if the permanent armor would be reduced another time to the level of Torbjörns armor pack (the ultimate would still have the benefit of regeneration while the ultimate is active and that it gives armor to everyone around Brigitte).

@Slice-11723

Widowmaker will shoot where you just dashed from and still kill you

I don’t think this is an issue with Genji but a general result from favor the shooter mechanics.

@Slice-11723

most people didn’t want Genji’s deflect to be nerfed the way it was, but rather make the animation show what it is deflecting

While this is the most important part of it, I think Genji’s previous deflect range was to big. However, if they adapt the animation, I would not mind Genji getting a deflect size somewhere in between the previous and the current one.

@Slice-11723

Genji to my knowledge, has only been buffed twice since launch

Sorry, but I don’t get this part, what does the number of buffs matter in context of balance? If I am not mistaken, Tracer was never buffed, she must be useless now that she even got a nerf.

@Slice-11723

1. Nerf Brigitte, arguably this does need to be done but I’ll leave it at that
2. Give Genji a small buff, maybe make 25 of his health pool armor, to increase survive ability.
3. Revert deflect, but make the animation show what its actually deflecting
4. Make the next hero be a direct counter to Brigitte, but help Genji in someway, a problem for Genji is Brigitte isn’t a good healer for him, seeing as a good Genji should harass support, and try and secure kills.

1. Yes, but I would go for small adjustments rather than a big hit.
2. Please no.
3. As said, I would not mind a little increase, but not a complete revert.
4. You mean like Pharah? I don’t agree with the 1v1 counters, people often argue in the forums, you need to see it in context of a 6v6.

[AHamsterGirl-2579]

Hey another " My beloved Genji isnt in the Meta anymore and got a hard Counter so he needs a Buff " Thread by a Genji One-Trick

just accept that Genji isnt a god anymore he doesnt need any buffs

[TheJN-2163]

I agree that Genji has been hit hard by recent changes but let’s remember that he is still top 3 among the DPS heroes. If you feel you are suffering imagine how the rest of us feel…

Let’s just be honest. The problem is Tracer.
Tracer is such a fundamentally broken and badly designed character that they made Brigitte just to counter her but everyone else ended up suffering even more…

[ScatterArrow-2500]

this is a good thing. People hate playing against genji

[TheJN-2163]

@ScatterArrow-2500

this is a good thing. People hate playing against genji

What year is it, 2016?
It was a long time since I heard anyone referring to Genji in such ways. There’s a whole new generation of heroes people blame for being “unfun” now.

If nothing else because people realized they could just switch to Moira or Brigitte and make Genji’s life miserable without even trying.

[Zane-1537]

@Slice-11723

You didn’t read this at all did you?

This isn’t a school, nor is anyone gonna read a book about your obsession with genji.

[TheJN-2163]

@Zane-1537

This isn’t a school, nor is anyone gonna read a book about your obsession with genji.

/facepalm

No, it isn’t a school but it’s common courtesy that you listen to their arguments if you want to participate in the discussion…

[Xhaos-2687]

Genji is still in a good place.
You cant play him against any combo any longer wow.
Maybe start to adapt, try other heroes when you get countert or find a game that isnt team based to play your solo style.

[Wadanny-2702]

Hey, no one’s too cool for school! And most books are longer than a few paragraphs.

Also why should OP credit your response if you won’t read their post?

[Matrim-2438]

He has the highest pick rate of all DPS heroes bar (the hilariously OP) Hanzo. If this is not a good place then it follows that the only good place for Gengu is being OP.

If nothing else because people realized they could just switch to Moira or Brigitte and make Genji’s life miserable without even trying.

And you can switch to Pharah and do the same to Brig without even trying but this hasn’t stopped complaining about Brig.

[marianne-21618]

Nerf McCree? You are joking, surely?

[willthegreen-1549]

Sorry no genji could use a nerf if anything

[Edsoulman-2692]

I’m sorry OP but this is an arguement you can never win here. Any hero that is oppressive to supports will never gain any favour on these forums, it’s just too heavily stacked against him. However much I agree with you, the vocal majority here is support biased. And there is a strong dislike for any hero that is “tricky” and by that I mean hard to track, evasive, and capable of flanking.

Why else do you think he forums were so vocal in their disdain for Dive?

The forums bias is real. And however rational your ideas may be, voicing your concerns for a hero like Genji, or Tracer will only be met with torches and pitchforks. Just as they did with the dive meta. And look where we are now…

Back on topic, I agree that a Genji is currently in a funny place. Part of what initially made him so effective was “bugs” His ledge boosting, his animation cancels etc, but this was also part of what made him feel like a ninja, nerfing this along with his triple jump heavily effected his ability to get in and get out, which more often then not leads to him dying.

Unfortunately he’s one of those heroes that is very difficult to change either way. Buffing him could lead to him being super oppressive and unfun to play against, so they have to be careful what they do with him. Sadly he exists in a meta that really sucks for him (along with Tracer, who is my main)

Hopefully something is done that makes flanking a possibility again, because this current meta stinks, and needs to go away pronto.

[iTANK-11122]

Calling Genji a god is delusional and narrow-minded. Especially now since he’s been dumpstered in a sad attempt to bring dive down.

He wasn’t even that great in dive. That’s why he was always the one to go when another hero was needed. He was the weakest link. That’s why he progressively got worse and worse in Blizzard’s attempts to kill dive, with Brigitte simply being the final nail in the coffin.

[GFoldem-2900]

@Edsoulman-2692

I’m sorry OP but this is an arguement you can never win here. Any hero that is oppressive to supports will never gain any favour on these forums, it’s just too heavily stacked against him. However much I agree with you, the vocal majority here is support biased. And there is a strong dislike for any hero that is “tricky” and by that I mean hard to track, evasive, and capable of flanking.

This seems like a bad mindset for discussion. “Whoever has another opinion won’t change their mind, no matter what I say, but I am right and they are just biased.”
Obviously I won’t change your mind, as I am a support main too, but maybe I can give you some thought on perspective. Do not only look at situations from your (mains) point of view, but consider what the hero does in current games in your team, on the opponents team and in whatever context he is played in.

@Edsoulman-2692

And there is a strong dislike for any hero that is “tricky” and by that I mean hard to track, evasive, and capable of flanking.

Why else do you think he forums were so vocal in their disdain for Dive?

I suppose this is because dive lasted for so long. Dive was the savior after the oppressing triple tank meta more than a year ago, but since then Dive was always a reasonable option if not the only viable (in higher level context - I only followed via videos/forum/reddit) and this burnt some of those dive heroes, because they were seen too much. People lost to much versus those heroes and if they where not playing those heroes themselves this leads to anger towards those.

Especially in low ratings their was no love for supports for a long time (I know, because I like playing support and I rarely had competition for the spot and was solo healing a lot). If you wonder why, because dive had the main goal to attack the enemy backline (supports) and kill them and was efficient at that.
If you die to a widowmaker or a soldier your positioning may have been of as support, but if you die to a Tracer or Genji, that is their job and neither you nor your team can do a lot to prevent that if not executed poorly (maybe your team can get a revenge kill, but it is not easy to fully protect your supports against a dive team).

@Edsoulman-2692

Back on topic, I agree that a Genji is currently in a funny place. Part of what initially made him so effective was “bugs” His ledge boosting, his animation cancels etc, but this was also part of what made him feel like a ninja, nerfing this along with his triple jump heavily effected his ability to get in and get out, which more often then not leads to him dying.

I honestly don’t understand this stance, Genji still has lots of mobility (double jump, wall climb, dash) and if you don’t think about a way out or can open up enough space for your team to win the fight, well you deserve to die.
Overwatch has those fast respawns because they allow for some experimentation with aggressive strats and no hero should be unkillable even if played well.
Some heroes get their sustain via mobility, some via healthpool and some via long range options. Those are not exclusive but their effectiveness should balance out with their potential on other sectors (healing, damage, other supportive features like shields etc.).
To close the circle, Genji still has lots of mobility and good damage potential and high pick- and winrate (in plat+) support the claim that he is in a good spot, if played well and as everybody know - playing well in competitive Overwatch sometimes means to switch if the hero has a very bad matchup.