GDC : Why Junkrat's Projectiles Are Terrible

Maybe. I like those ideas, and i hope the devs try them. Moira needs more ways to be useful.[quote=“reapersthicc-1818, post:20, topic:317757”]
maybe up-ing her ult healing from 140 to 160-180HPS.
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Real talk: i’d rather amp up her damage while ulting.

I wouldn’t hate having 80-100 DPS with her ult.

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That’s a terrible counterargument because ultimately the only solution that would ‘satisfy’ you is by removing him from the game and or reworking him so he’s fundamentally different and removed from the game. That is not a solution to character balancing. That’s being a whiny baby.

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Thank god I didn’t ask for your opinion nor do I care.

Yeah thank god you don’t balance the game or no one would play it.

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Likewise.

In a way, Ashe and Baptiste have elements of a junkrat remake

That’s just generic lan being amazing stuff tho. It’s the case for a lot more than just junkrat. Tracer’s pulsebomb has a very persistant problem of being deleted because clients are out of sync with the server and it has such a large window where she can lose it, and it has a very small hitbox so there’s a lot of room for it to miss so it sticks then falls off for the clients. Hanzo’s arrows have notorious hitreg issues too. Oh yeah, rocket punch too.

I don’t think it’s a straight forward problem to fix. They’re striking a very precise balance between client and server side registration and any change could make other ability interactions feel wildly different. Do I agree with how they’ve chosen to do it thus far? Not really, but then again the netcode for overwatch as a whole seems relatively nice compared to other games so I can’t complain too much.

In some small ways I suppose, with the explosive and coach gun, but they both reward such different ways and modes of thinking that frankly I would not cross compare them.

Ashe is a steady-aim style hero that rewards you for careful planning and managing to make quick shots, Junkrat by comparison seems a bit more about being predictive because your fire takes so long to get there, along with the bounce and lob. I can see some similarities but Junkrat is so active and mobile and I feel like I’m only getting my best value out of Ashe when I’m relatively still, they give me totally different experiences.

Its ‘nice’ because they’re making it as lightweight as possible so they can try to predict everything it unsurprisingly doesn’t make it accurate, which is part of the problem. Thats why theres the little joke at the end about Pharah’s rockets being deleted.

You could still argue though that while those characters have problems that they apparently can’t solve, this is a problem that they exacerbated by nerfing his mine size to the point where he’s basically unplayable.

It’s like, one thing to walk up and find a boat tipped over. It’s another to show up, tip the boat over, and then go “Oh no, what do we do about this tipped over boat??” lol.

For her primary yeah, staying stable is necessary, but between her shotgun and burn ability and Baptistes augmented grenade launcher, these were ideas pitched for Junkrat y1 when people were demanding changes. I think mostly because he was being compared to DemoMan from TF2.

Exactly. There’s occasionally an issue with hitscan enemies having a missed shot due to bad estimation, but in reducing Junkrat’s grenades they did something TERRIBLE to his shot estimation.

I think it feels nice for other opinions than what you’re trying to make me have and I’ll just leave it at that.

You’re not wrong. Raising his projectile size would effectively make the symptoms go away, but it wouldn’t fix the core of the issue. For example, rocket punch, pulsebomb, hanzo arrows, they’d all still go into the void and only junkrat would be happy. You can’t really apply the same fix to every problem either, because there’s outrage when hanzo and doomfist get hitbox increases regardless of the size. I’m not against making his grenades bigger to make junkrat players happy btw. I just don’t think it’s fair to blame this on the netcode because the issues aren’t really that surprising.

Either way I don’t think the answer is “Make him more like Ashe” as reapersthicc would apparently like. That’s a stupid idea because it removes the variation and diversity of experience in Overwatch and turns it into Battlefield:Yet Another Boring Shooter where you ShootShootShoot.

I don’t mind people wanting changes to characters, I get it, but I’m pretty sick of people acting like Symmetra’s lock on beam was just so heinous because ~le gasp~ you DidENtHaveToAImE!!!11! like - woop de freakin’ do, a single character where you didn’t super have to aim. Almost like the characters all have different weapons and abilities or something that make them unique or some crazy weird totally off the wall concept, who’dathunkit.

I’m feeling super sarcastic tonight apparently.

Yeah basically it’s like: You can’t get a perfect solution. Fine. So maybe find A solution. A DECENT solution, not a PERFECT solution, but SOMETHING is better than NOTHING guys.

So many kids these days are reductive in what they’ll accept; things must be FLAWLESS or we might as well not even bother. It’s just a bad way of going about things, because then you end up spending ten times as long with the thing in the worst state rather than spending half that time with it in a marginally better state.

Basically would you rather be sitting waiting for a ride forever, or start walking and reach your destination in half the time? Just sitting and waiting won’t get you home any faster, you either gotta call a cab or a friend or SOMETHING, be proactive, but just sitting and waiting will do absolutely nothing.

It could also be that people are skeptical because bandaid fixes that make things on high ping feel more comparable to low ping can cause interactions to be incredibly more powerful the lower your ping is, and they want to avoid those.

I’m using “they” when I mean “we” because I’m assuming you mean “many kids” in place of me as well.

Like I’d be okay with them trying it out and seeing what happens with him and the meta but I will question anything when we’re on this roller coaster of “play this for six months” and the last thing I’d want is another junkrat rampage lol. I personally think they could be fine trying .3 out again and seeing how it plays in whatever meta is to come as long as they’re quick to adjust him going forward.

I dont think we have to think that deep. Junkrat frags are much slower than Hanzo arrows.
Even Hanzo had several speed buffs because his hits were too random. Now it is almost hitscan.
So Junkrat players just have enough rights to say buff the frags speed or size.

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It’s not a ‘bandaid fix’ it’s a revert, because his projectiles worked and landed fine before this change. Now that they have made this change, an active choice from the Dev Team, he now no longer manages to hit half the crap he’s actually supposed to be hitting. That is insanity.

We’re not asking for a bandaid fix, we’re asking for them to undo the damage they actively did.

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You seemed to have stated your opinions , i was not trying to imply anything about them or impress any new ones into your side of the statement. Netcode is there to try and make the game feel responsive, and for the most part, that’s what it does. That … seemed to be your side of it?

I used to play Hanzo before the speed change, now he’s honestly not that different from any other hitscan hero, and yet he’s rewarded SO STRONGLY for basically nothing.

Back when you had to time his shots/peeks and you’d just hope to get someone who was dumb enough to poke a doorway, it actually felt at least somewhat skillful. Were you aiming at them? Not in the sense that widowmaker was, no, you were sort of spamming, but educated spamming of where you know your enemy is shouldn’t be this horrific thing that the community paints it to be. That’s called strategy; shooting in the direction of your enemy, using timing, knowledge of the maps and enemy movement/height to your advantage.

It’s like people act as if the only thing we should reward in this game is a single thing; Oh wow, you managed to move your cursor to that spot and click it the fastest, you should win!

I’m not playing Aimwatch kids, it’s called Overwatch, a game with nuance and variation among heroes. There’s a reason I don’t play CS and Battlefield anymore; THEY BORING AF.

Edit: I should point out you could also aim with Hanzo, it was just harder to do because you had to factor in his timing. That’s what I liked about Junkrat, too, now it’s all messed up.